Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry 204 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  designs

  Burn-

  I will add comments from Jewish works, as I have tried to do. A really excellent and thorough discussion on this topic is found in the work by Nathan Ausubel- The Book of Jewish Knowledge. If you or others can find it read the section on the Sadducees, their origin, governmental and social base and the clashes they had with the more democratic Pharisee Schools. The Talmud and the writings of Josephus, the Book The Wisdom of Ecclesiasticus by Sadduceean poet Jesus ben Sirach are the few resources still available. The Sadducees were hated among the common folk for their ties to foreign powers dating back to the Greeks.
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  BurnTheShips

  Comments from Pharisee works are not necessarily of the same tone as "facts on the ground" as experienced by those in the NT.

  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/`Am_ha-aretz

  BTS
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  designs

  Burn-

  Yes let's all agree to that most adorable factual statement in the Gospels- 'His blood be upon us'.

  Maimonedes would roll over in his grave....
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  BurnTheShips

  Misdirection won't work with me, Designs. No Jedi mind tricks please.

  And besides, it would be over 1000 years until the birth of Maimonides. My mother's family is from his old neighborhood.

  It's late anyway. Toodooloo.

  BTS
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  designs

  You wanted factual statements from the NT, you got one. Of course like Rabbis have said for centuries 'you would really have people believe we called the curse of Cain upon ourselves' oh brother

  Go into any Church of your pick and ask the congregants if they believe that statement to be true, or try the experiment about the word 'Pharisee' and listen to the responses.

  Whether you are dealing with a Witness or some 'Christian' why do they have this gullible attitude about the NT as being accurate. It all starts with bad material ie 'Jesus' and 'Paul', and the missinformation kept getting handed down generation to generation.

  It gets so blantantly bad in the Gospels you have Jesus uttering 'I give you a new commandment to love one another' John 13:34 Ooops that's from the Torah. Rabbinic schools had been teaching this for Centuries. Did 'Jesus' miss a class or did he just not want to give credit where credit was due.

  Now of course the Trinitarians will retort- but our Jeus was there with Moses hammering out the sayings in stone and they critisize the GB for being hucksters. geeez
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  BurnTheShips

  You wanted factual statements from the NT, you got one. Of course like Rabbis have said for centuries 'you would really have people believe we called the curse of Cain upon ourselves' oh brother

  Context!

  And in the same breath you fail to mention the one that was crucified on this particular occasion.

  You hardly seem impartial.

  Go into any Church of your pick and ask the congregants if they believe that statement to be true, or try the experiment about the word 'Pharisee' and listen to the responses.

  You really sound very prejudiced and ignorant, here. I hope it is just my misreading you. As a member of a church, I don't share this prejudice of yours. I also don't share the view you think all Christians hold, and know a great many that don't either.

  Whether you are dealing with a Witness or some 'Christian' why do they have this gullible attitude about the NT as being accurate. It all starts with bad material ie 'Jesus' and 'Paul', and the missinformation kept getting handed down generation to generation.

  You seem to treat the NT as of being of a different and lesser category of historical accuracy than the Torah. That is, to say the least, strange.

  It gets so blantantly bad in the Gospels you have Jesus uttering 'I give you a new commandment to love one another' John 13:34 Ooops that's from the Torah. Rabbinic schools had been teaching this for Centuries. Did 'Jesus' miss a class or did he just not want to give credit where credit was due.

  It is interesting that it is Jesus' sayings in these texts that echo in the hearts of hundreds of millions of non Jewish people........but not those of your Rabbis.

  Now of course the Trinitarians will retort- but our Jeus was there with Moses hammering out the sayings in stone and they critisize the GB for being hucksters. geeez

  As a Trinitarian, I find you prejudices somewhat offensive.

  You fully defend the Rabbis' religious interpretations....but bash the Christians.

  If you want to reduce the latter to hucksterism, you have absolutely no credibility on the former.

  OK, now I AM REALLY going to bed. Busy day tommorrow.

  BTS
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  jay88

  Gal 1:11-17

  Paul Called by God

  11 I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. 12 I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. 13 For you have heard of my previous way of life in Judaism, how intensely I persecuted the church of God and tried to destroy it. 14 I was advancing in Judaism beyond many Jews of my own age and was extremely zealous for the traditions of my fathers. 15 But when God, who set me apart from birth and called me by his grace, was pleased 16 to reveal his Son in me so that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not consult any man, 17 nor did I go up to Jerusalem to see those who were apostles before I was, but I went immediately into Arabia and later returned to Damascus.
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  designs

  Glad to offend, you should be ashamed, that's closer to the reality of believing in the NT.

  You don't believe the statement in Matthew 27:25. I don't either, its a fabrication.

  My point is not in defending Judaism but in pointing out that the NT portrayal of Judiasm is faulty.

  The years after I left the Witnesses I spent going to other Churches to see for myself what they had to say: Presbyterian, Assembly of God, Calvary Chapel, Baptist. It was time well spent I could then close the door on those superstitions.
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  tec

  Jay - I know Paul said he was called by God (by grace as this account states). But he did not say that he was the only one called - or that everyone else was wrong except for him - and he does describe others (all others I think) who are called as having been known from before birth. So this account does not imply that he thought he was in any way better than the apostles. In fact, in another account he says the opposite about himself.

  Ephesians 3:8 "Although I am less than the least of all God's people..."

  Tammy
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  jay88

  Actually the account does state that he felt as if he was better.

  Paul is such a mixed bag. He will boast and tell you how great he is and with the same tone belittle himself. False humility. He also states that if you don't recognize his gospel given to him, that is it like turn you back on Christ.

  great.

  Jay