Paul, leading authority on Christianity, does NOT quote Jesus!

by Terry 204 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Soldier77

    I just started to read "Christianity - The First Three Thousand Years" by Diarmaid MacCulloch. It has some really eye opening details on the history of how christianity started and the influential factors that molded the religion that is today. I'm only 128 pages into it out of a thousand and it's already quite clear to me that the whole religion is a farce.

    Paul clearly departs from the teachings of Jesus. Of course, when you look at the authors and the lack of evidence that they in fact wrote their respective books, it makes you pause and really question the authenticity and so called "Holy Spirit" that is said to preserve the Bible through the ages.

    It's all one vye for power and control of the masses throughout history.

  • Terry

    Take any series of events or story about sequential events and chop it up into pieces and CHANGE THE ORDER.

    Then, introduce the story a couple of thousand years later to fresh eyes.

    What different conclusions are forced by taking events out of order?

    The reader is confused and MUST BE LED toward conclusion as to meaning!

    Take the Watchtower's latest attempt at explaining its own history the PROCLAIMERS book.

    The same thing is done.

    The story is not told start to finish. It is segmented, divided, re-ordered. Tell-tale events are discussed--not as a unit--but as

    a series of carefully framed contexts with dense commentary surrounding.

    When you confuse people they require clarification to understand and assimilate.

    The Bible is a jumble.

    It is confusing. It is out of sequence and is time distorted.

    As a result there are tens of thousands of books EXPLAINING (or forcing explanations) the meaning.

    Confusion breeds rational surrender.

  • trevor

    Terry - Documents that did not agree were rounded up and burned.

    So were People that did not agree, once the church was established!

  • tec
    it makes you pause and really question the authenticity and so called "Holy Spirit" that is said to preserve the Bible through the ages.

    Yes, but who says that? There is nothing to back that up.


  • designs


    'all scriptures is inspired'

    One thing about our time in the Organization we did learn our Bible...........really helped on the way out

  • tec

    What is scripture, though, Designs? The entire bible? How can that be... Paul wasn't referring to his own letters when he spoke of scripture. And does inspired scripture necessarily relate to preserved inspired scripture?

  • designs

    Ask that nut case Paul, maybe Shebly can channel him

  • tec

    Shelby does not channel Paul, and I don't know why you'd even bring her into it.

    The answer is pretty simple. Inspired scripture does not refer to the entire bible... nor does it refer to preservation of the bible, or even scripture. So perhaps the time you spent 'learning the bible' didn't give you any special insight into what it actually says. Because you were listening more to what people told you it meant when it said 'this' or 'that'.

    (the 'you' is general here)


  • whereami

    You might find this interesting:

    Was the Bible forged? Author claims some New Testament books were written by 'people pretending to be apostles'

    By Daily Mail Reporter
    Last updated at 4:34 AM on 27th March 2011

    Lies: In his new book Bart D Ehrman claims several New Testament books were written by people pretending to certain apostles

    A work of fiction? Bart D Ehrman claims several New Testament books were actually written by people pretending to be apostles

    Parts of the Bible were written by people who lied about their identity, an author has claimed.

    Bart D Ehrman claims many books of the New Testament were forged by people pretending to be the apostles Peter, Paul or James.

    Writing in the Huffington Post, Professor Ehrman, best selling author of 'Misquoting Jesus' and 'Jesus, Interrupted', said religious scholars were well aware of the 'lies' of the Bible.

    While some were happy to acknowledge them others refer to them as 'pseudepigrapha' - meaning a falsely attributed work -, he wrote.

    In his new book , Why the Bible's Authors Are Not Who We Think They Are, Professor Ehrman claims The Second Epistle of Peter - or 2 Peter - was forged.

    '...scholars everywhere - except for our friends among the fundamentalists - will tell you that there is no way on God's green earth that Peter wrote the book.

    'Someone else wrote it claiming to be Peter,' he writes.

    He then suggests scholars who say it was acceptable in the ancient world for someone to write a book in the name of someone else, are wrong.

    'If you look at what ancient people actually said about the practice, you'll see that they invariably called it lying and condemned it as a deceitful practice, even in Christian circles,' Professor Ehrman writes.

    Many scholars think six of the 13 letters allegedly written by Paul were actually authored by somebody else claiming to be Paul, Professor Ehrman claims.

    St PaulSaint Peter With Key

    Assumed identity: Professor Ehrman claims someone posing as St Peter, right, wrote 2 Peter, and another posing as St Paul, left, wrote six of his 13 letters

    'In the ancient world, books like that were labelled as pseudoi - lies,' he writes.

    Professor Ehrman also claims the author of the book of 1 Timothy claimed to be Paul but in actual fact was someone living after Paul had died.

    The author then used the apostle's name to address a problem he saw in church, according to Professor Ehrman.

    'Women were speaking out, exercising authority and teaching men. That had to stop,' he writes.

    Oppression: Professor Erhman claims whoever wrote 1 Timothy was trying to put women in their place and cited the garden of Eden as an example of what can happen when women are in charge

    Agenda: Professor Erhman claims whoever wrote 1 Timothy was trying to put women in their place by citing the garden of Eden as an example of what can happen when women are in charge

    'The author told women to be silent and submissive, and reminded his readers about what happened the first time a woman was allowed to exercise authority over a man, in that little incident in the garden of Eden.

    'No, the author argued, if women wanted to be saved, they were to have babies (1 Tim. 2:11-15).'

    Paul is known as one of history's great misogynists, largely based on this passage from the Bible.

    But Professor Ehrman argues this label is not necessarily justified because he wasn't the one to write it.

    'And why does it matter? Because the passage is still used by church leaders today to oppress and silence women,' writes Professor Ehrman.

    'Why are there no women priests in the Catholic Church? Why are women not allowed to preach in conservative evangelical churches? Why are there churches today that do not allow women even to speak?

    'In no small measure it is because Paul allegedly taught that women had to be silent, submissive and pregnant.

    'Except that the person who taught this was not Paul, but someone lying about his identity so that his readers would think he was Paul.'

    Professor Ehrman then goes on to write how the Bible is actually filled with the need for 'truth' but many of its writers were telling a lie.

    'It appears that some of the New Testament writers, such as the authors of 2 Peter, 1 Timothy and Ephesians, felt they were perfectly justified to lie in order to tell the truth,' he writes.

    'But we today can at least evaluate their claims and realise just how human, and fallible, they were.'

    Read more:

  • lovelylil


    The "all scripture is inspired" refers to two types of writings;

    1. The OT, specifically the prophetic books (this is what Timothy was referring too)

    And later on for the New Testament;

    2. Any writings that were written by men shown to be inspired by God. The bible refers to Paul as one of them;

    2Peter3:15-16, NIV

    15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction

    The early christians recognized that Paul was under inspiration of God. That is also WHY all his epistles were included in our NT. As far as the NT and Pauls writings being forgeries? Well those topics have always been debated, usually by non believers. Collectively, the church accepts these writings and while some like to pretend that the early church was forced by Constantine to believe in the writings he "allowed" in the bible, that is not true. The church fathers Collectively agreed on what the NT contained, which were the gospels and the apostles writings first, Pauls epistles and then the other books that the universal church agreed were the pertinent teachings for the church.

    Hope this clears this up. Peace, Lilly

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