These are good people

by Retrovirus 100 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

moshe

They present personal opinion on here as assumed facts.
The whole Jesus myth is based on accepting the New Testament Bible writings of no-name people about a Jesus, who shows up in no historical records.
But there can only be one truth and that is why we search. It can be said humans need to know!
A Mormon missionary meets a JW on the sidewalk and after they fail in converting each other the Mormon admits that their are three choice for them.
A Mormonism is the one true religion.
B The WT religion is tthe one true religion, or
C- They are both wrong- neither one has the true religion
Unless a person has examined all the religions of the world, it must be said they are members of their religion due to some personal bias, not because of facts.
With 99.9% of the world rejecting the WT version of religious truth, it must be obvious to a reasoning person that the truth lies elsewhere. You can't fool that many people.
The Bible contains many paradoxes, and a paradox is anathema to a universal truth. Which leads one to the possiblity that either the god of the Bible doesn't believe in universal laws and truths or the Bible is just a hodge podge of human inspired writings. Either one leaves the WT religion without a reason to exist.
added- one more choice, the structure and laws of the physical arena, we call Earth, that humans live in does not allow for 100% universal truth.- hence the reason for the existence of human paradox.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/199170/1/No-Virgina-God-doesnt-use-Paradoxes
debator

Hi moshe
Majority belief does not equate to truth! Yours is a very weak argument! If 99 out of 100 people decided black was white and one said it was still black would it make the majority right by simply being in the majority?
I am surprised you even put that on the table.
You are right that their are many religions and beliefs. Do I have to go into the minutia of each one to recognise their invalidity?
The bible in whole or in part is used by 3 of the major religions in society today. It has verifiable history of which less and less is debated. Jesus maybe doubted as God's son by people but most historians recognise that the established evidence supports he was a real live person that existed.
We are given the Bible God's word to find the truth. How much we use it and allow it to guide our understandings is the measure against all Christian religions.
Since 99% of Christian religions believe in a trinity God that isn't even mentioned in the bible. This makes them fall at the first fence if they cannot even get God right what are the odds against the rest of what they teach?
Whether you accept it or not Jehovah's witnesses stand out as a uniquely Christian religion (in the pattern of early Christians) at this time, that Trinitarians tried to stamp out of existence by fair means or foul. But they fail because we regrow simply by insightful study of God's word they haven't been able destroy despite all efforts to stop people reading God's word.
The paradoxes are not in the Bible but in faulty human perception from their own opinion of what should be in the Bible.
Name me one other book of Ancient writings that is established in humanity as the Bible is? Touching history, archaeology, huge events, accuracy of historical daily life from century to century, kings, Rulers and countries, insightful teachings and accurate prophecy among many more points that establish it beyond just the majority believing it.
You talk about the majority argument but reject a book that has touched the life's of billions of people world-wide and just dismiss it as a fairy tale? Your argument if actually followed by you would prove the Bible as accurate truth simply by it's establishment world-wide.
Instead your arguments smacks more of someone desperately searching for ways to disprove Jehovah's witnesses and the bible rather than reasoned judgement.
cantleave

The creation book due to it's age will be to a certain degree out-of-date regarding current Evolution theory
The brochures produced last year show that the WTS still has no understanding a Evolutionary theory.
But then why should it? It is afterall, a religion full of window cleaners and petrol pump attendants.
Nickolas

Any books disproving Evolution have to change constantly because Evolution theories change so much.
Evolutionary theory doesn't change, debator, it evolves with our technological ability to explore and dig deeper and deeper. Of course evolutionary theory is different now from Darwin's time. Darwin had no clue about the enormous diversity of life on this planet, particularly in areas the people in his time could only dream of exploring, and he of course had no clue about the depth of understanding in the field of genetics. As to proofs that bring down the theory of evolution through natural selection, I and the entire scientific community would welcome any that you can provide. In fact, if you can provide one you would become famous and wealthy and I would be glad to know you.
But there can only be one truth
Who says?
I am a Jehovah Witness because I found the true God's truth in Jehovah's witnesses according to his word the Bible and I reject Evolution because makes a belief out of disbelief and scepticism of the created world around us.
You are a Jehovah's Witness because you have surrendered your ability to think for yourself. You might be well advised to seek an understanding of cognitive dissidence theory. You reject without consideration the absolutely crushing evidence that intelligent life on earth was present long, long before 6,000 years ago just because you know it has to be false.
But everyone has to find out what they believe for themselves as you do too. But please do it according to researchable facts rather than prejudiced opinion of the JW hate-mongerers from this site.
Wrong again. The love I have for the Jehovah's Witnesses in my family is absolute. That is why I want to free them from the shackles of the Society that imprisons their minds and is ruining their lives. I have no hate for Jehovah's Witnesses. I hate the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, as much as I hate any threat to the people I love. Retrovirus needs to understand that your advice is directed toward him not to try to change the paradigms of the people to whom he is interacting but to allow them to change his paradigm. That is the real danger of his situation.
With 99.9% of the world rejecting the WT version of religious truth, it must be obvious to a reasoning person that the truth lies elsewhere. You can't fool that many people.
The Bible contains many paradoxes, and a paradox is anathema to a universal truth. Which leads one to the possiblity that either the god of the Bible doesn't believe in universal laws and truths or the Bible is just a hodge podge of human inspired writings. Either one leaves the WT religion without a reason to exist.
Read the above highlighted words carefully, Retrovirus.
OUTLAW

Whether you accept it or not Jehovah's witnesses stand out as a uniquely Christian religion (in the pattern of early Christians) at this time.....debator/Reniaa
What a load of Crap..
The WBT$ Cult Jehovah`s Witness`s are a patch work of..
Millerites/Adventists/Catholics/Pyramidolagy and left over French Frys from a McDonalds Happy Meal..
............................. ...OUTLAW
Nickolas

Majority belief does not equate to truth! Yours is a very weak argument! If 99 out of 100 people decided black was white and one said it was still black would it make the majority right by simply being in the majority?
Classic Watchtower distortion of the point. It is not a question of belief. It is a question of alternative perspective. Black is not white, no matter how you spin it. It is black. We all see it as black, even you. What we see that you don't (or can't) is contradictory observation and evidence that what you believe is absolute nonsense.
You are right that their are many religions and beliefs. Do I have to go into the minutia of each one to recognise their invalidity?
We're not talking minutiae here, debator (or Ranai or whatever you have gone by before) but huge, glaring, cavernous holes in the Watchtower story. You can ride an entire herd of camels through them.
Since 99% of Christian religions believe in a trinity God that isn't even mentioned in the bible.
Sure it is, right there beside the word "organisation". (thank you, Ding)
Name me one other book of Ancient writings that is established in humanity as the Bible is?
Irrelevant. Ancient books are ancient books. The fact that bronze and iron age beliefs and perspectives have endured only means we are still waking up from the superstitions of our primitive pasts.
Instead your arguments smacks more of someone desperately searching for ways to disprove Jehovah's witnesses and the bible rather than reasoned judgement.
Is Jesus Christ your Mediator, debator, or is it the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society? Does Jesus Christ mediate for all Jehovah's Witnesses or for only the annointed 144,000? If Jesus is not your mediator, then you are allowing a bunch of men in Brooklyn to represent your spiritual interests. You are not following Christ, you are following men. (thank you OUTLAW and GMJ for the insight).
life is to short

I have not had time to read all of the posts but I think Out Law's picture on the first page speaks volumes. When I was in the "truth" those pictures bothered me but now they totally make me sick.
Out Law you did a great job with making the picture stand out so well. Thanks it shows the religion for what it is a hate filled no love religion.
LITS
Retrovirus

Hi OTWO
Please report their response when you demonstrate the dishonesty of the WT literature. They will bend over backwards to defend it, regardless of what they read in the book. Their habits of quoting sources are awful. I was showed how the WT literature quoted something that sounded scholarly that seemed to agree with them. It turned out that their quote out of context was actually the scholarly source quoting the Watchtower itself and blasting it. The quote out of context just stuck with a small part. So Watchtower literature quoted a source quoting Watchtower literature
For weeks I tried to believe the literature was just cut-n-paste from creationist sites, but now it seems more deliberate than that. Quotes out of context are everywhere. That said, the latest brochure at least quotes sources, so perhaps some of the feedback is getting through.
Their response I think was learned. First insist that there's no problem, then ask the person to contact the Watchtower themselves. I say this because my SIL also did this; that's why I was ready for it. What was great was that when I challenged them, they actually tried to do some research. This may be because we've been talking for a while now and have some mutual respect - or that may be what they want me to believe. Who knows?
Given the responses so far, I'll keep going with this.
Retro
Retrovirus

Dear Grace (Mouthy)
Thank you for sharing your story. You've given me the strongest reasons to persist with this.
I hope you've fully recovered from your fall.
Retro
debator

Hi Nickolas
Word trickery is not going to work with me! "Evolution doesn't change it evolves" I lolled at that one! So men coming from Apes changing oops evolving to men coming from ape-like ancesters is just evolving not changing opinion? and the fact that many different evolutionists hold totally differing opinions is just evolving?.
From sludge to man in a billion years with hundreds of variable opinions on it! The major assumption being that there can be no other model for our existence. So they refine and rework the theory within the assumed evolutionary framework so there remains very little similarity between what Darwin believed against what is believed now. Darwin gave you the title and evolutionists just change oops evolve the content under it.
Like most theories I expect it will disprove itself.
There can be only one basic truth that is a reality of our existence. But we can and do have differing opinions on it. The differing opinions do not allow for different truths only for the other opinions to be disproved when the real one is revealed.
You talk of cognitive dissonance when you own defence of the ever-changing evolution theory smacks of it?
Yes it is human nature to defend our personal beliefs clinging to ever-greater outrageous claims against the battering of reality but my belief in God is set against the reality of the immeasurably harmonious complexity of intelligent design around me and my belief that Jehovah's witnesses are Jehovah's people in this time against the reality of what the bible actually teaches as opposed to the unbiblical-ness of other so-called Christian religions.
You try to divide Jehovah witnesses and the watchtower and tract society when we are the same thing, it would be more honest to say you are dividing the sheep from the shepherds. Anti-authority wrapped up in word trickery.
If you had no hate towards Jehovah's witnesses why are you trying to stop your family being Jehovah's witnesses? If your desire is to stop them being Jehovah's witnesses how can you say you don't hate Jehovah's witnesses? It like saying "I don't hate doctors" but refusing to let them practise as doctors or actually be doctors. If there then are no doctors you have succeeded in wiping them out even if the humans that used to be them still exist.
Majority belief has consistently throughout the centuries proven to be no measure of truthfulness.
The highlighted words are just unproven, biased, very spacious opinion and unspecific assumptions from that person. What paradoxes? What universal laws is he referring too? what universal truth is he referring too? how is the bible hodge podge?

These are good people

Share this