Are they really that bad???

by anonymous4 310 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Hoffnung

    Hello Debator & Designs,

    You failed to provide a reasoning based upon the scriptures, I asked you more then once. Thank you for confirming my thoughts. The hope to live forever in paradise on earth is not christian. Pauls spoke about one hope for all christians in Ephesians.

    Best regards,


  • designs

    Hoff- you're out of touch with your own Cult, do some damn homework before you open the cereal feeder

    here are some resources-;

  • Hoffnung

    Hello Designs, FYI, I am an inactive JW, slowly releasing the bonds. I believe to understand from your comments you were once an active JW as well, and even an elder at that. I guess you already have gone quite some miles since you quit, and currently favouring Judaism or something related to it. I respect that, however I am not keen in accepting your views. I cannot identify myself with any religion at all at this point in my life. However, any discourse for a Pharasaiac way of believing makes me vomit, I have experienced way too much of it during my time as a JW, and I have seen too many negative long term effects on peoples lives, my own included. I just want to know what the bible teaches for a christian. It seems to be very difficult for you and debator to just sit down, open the bible and show the verses that answer my question. I can understand it is not your peace of cake to defend anything christian at all. May God bless you. Best regards, Hoffnung

  • designs

    Hoffnung- my journey into Judaism was actually my exit from all religion, it answered questions I had lingering as a JW/Christian that never made sense.

    All the best on your journey, this is a great new life and the road ahead is ours finally.

  • jookbeard

    seems a cruel and unusual way of treating someone, if the only crime I committed was voicing an opinion contrary to current WT teaching and was punished in a secret meeting and not once was the Bible used in my crime then conformity at all costs seems a practice worse then what the "churches of christendom"practice and if an religious organization practices unscriptural ways of treating people then it must be a false prophet, after all the pages of the WT ridicule and rile the ChuoChr that practise unscriptural practises, sounds like hypocrisy and double standards IMHO.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I was raised a JW. Your authenticity is doubtful but I'm going to pretend you are not provocative. When I studied as an undergrad at Columbia University, I studied New Testament courses. We were assigned the New English Bible but even the New World Translation would work out well. The gospels and Paul's authentic letters are relatively short. Read the Bible verse after verse, chapter after chapter until you finish the bible book. Don't read any commentary. Sit with yourself and ask what do these stories mean? Pretend it is a reading comprehension test. I discovered to my utter shock that most of the Witness teachings were spurious. The Bible is a large book. Anyone can twist anything in it to prove their point. It is much harder to twist if you are the one asking questions and the entire context is seen. Jesus said that Satan could quote scripture for his own purpose.

    I once believed the WTS. Indeed, many of their factual assertions are correct but twisted. If you don't know items such as the Sanhedrin, Temple worship, etc. just google it or use wikipedia. An invaluable source for me is the Encyclopedia Judaica which is a multivolume set that explains Jewish hisitory, doctrine, tradition and belief. I can assure that you if you stop being passive and actively ask on your own, the Witnesses will no longer seem authoritative on the Bible. Contrary to what the Witnesses state, no special education is needed. What have you to lose?

    The fruits of the Witnesses are also to be considered. My family was immersed in JW for generations. It hurt me b/c no one would even talk to me at Kingdom Hall. Newcomers, however, were desperately sought after and wooed. Once you commit, the nice people are no longer nice. I can't say that my present church is doctrinally purer but I can say that the authoritarian and outrageous Witness culture destroys lives. God's creation is good. Fun is good. Fundamentally, my belief is that Jesus was fully human and fully God. Christianity is diverse. Contrast Jesus' actions in embracing life, celebrating, mixing with Pharisees socially and the apostles cluelessness as to Jesus' work with the certainty of the Witnesses. Humility is a godly trait.

  • wasblind


    can you explain how Gods Active force or Holy Spirit, which this Organization claim to have,

    leave them uninspired ?

    The reason I ask is because on page 381 in the Reasoning book it states :

    What gives evidence that a person really has the Holy Spirit,........."

    and it qoutes luke 4:18, where Jesus reads from the scroll of the prophet Isaiah : " Jehovah's spirit is upon me, because he anionted me to declare the good news."

    Now even though JW's say they are not prophets, they do claim to be anointed with the same Active Force or Holy Spirit. So why aren't they inspired ?

  • designs


    The HS is doled out one tablespoon at a time........

  • wasblind

    Debator said: " Your accusations only fit if we do claim inspiration for our publications as Jehovah's witnesses this last 100+ years But we do not and never have claimed inspiration! "

    Well I'm gonna dole out another tablespoon from the Reasoning book

    On page 381 in the first paragraph it states about the Holy spirit that : "It is not a person, but is a powerful force that God emanate from himself to accomplish his Holy will."

    So again, my question to Debator is why isn't the the GB on down to the rank and file inspired by this powerful force??????

  • Vanderhoven7

    <<I just want to know what the bible teaches for a christian. It seems to be very difficult for you and debator to just sit down, open the bible and show the verses that answer my question. I can understand it is not your peace of cake to defend anything christian at all.>>

    Excellent. I am not a member of Jehovah's Witnesses and I'm glad you are not out to ridicule or argue...which is pointless as well as unproductive.

    I believe it can be shown that the Bible teaches that there will be a new heaven and new earth. Heaven, in the form of new Jerusalem, will eventually come down to earth and heavenly life will flow from that city to the nations that previously had not known God or His Christ.

    Not only will the nations be subdued under the iron rule of Christ and His elect, but there will be discipline, loss as well as salvation and sins forgiven in this (millennial) age to come...forgiveness except, of course, for the sin against the Holy Spirit which involves a clear rejection of the Savior.

    The wicked (those who have sinned against the Holy Spirit), will perish in the second death at the end of the mellennial reign.

    Yes, paradise is heaven...and the elect will dwell in that heavenly city, but heaven and earth will be one.

    I'd be glad to share what I see as scriptual backing for any aspect of the above.


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