Did Jesus resurrect Himself?

by brotherdan 143 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Podobear

  Yes, Think About It, I have seen Stephen do this many times. I am unsure what he is trying to say or do at times!

  On the one hand I thank him for being the very first person to greet me on this board 6 months ago, on the other he remains detatched from strong discussion, throwing in Scripture that is best ambiguous if taken out of context - which he does constantly. (Podo - scratches his head here, somewhat perplexed)

  Stephen the subject here is "Did Jesus resurrect Himself". The overwhelming testimony of the Scriptures presented tell us that HE DID NOT. His God, and Father did. Your final three offerings fail to prove otherwise.

  May we have some comment from you on all the texts these studious Posters have added to the debate that State unequivocaly that Jesus was resurrectd by God, his and our Father?

  May the Holy Spirit urge you to consider this request in a spirit of truth

  Podo
• 

  DagothUr

  It's amazing how people escape from one trap and fall into another.
• 

  Chalam

  The overwhelming testimony of the Scriptures presented tell us that HE DID NOT.

  I agree with BrotherDan. The scriptures testify that the Father, the Holy Spirit and Jesus raised Him from the dead on multiple occasions.

  As I mentioned before, if anyone has an issue with Jesus' words then hopefully get it resolved before Judgement Day.

  Matthew 12:36 (English Standard Version)

  36 I tell you, on the day of judgment people will give account for every careless word they speak

  Matthew 25:31 (English Standard Version)

  The Final Judgment

  31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.

  Matthew 16:27 (English Standard Version)

  27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

  2 Corinthians 5:10 (English Standard Version)

  10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

  Romans 14:12 (English Standard Version)

  12 So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

  Romans 2:15-16 (English Standard Version)

  15 They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them 16 on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus.

  Matthew 25

  Blessings in Christ,

  Stephen
• 

  designs

  'Get it resolved before Judgement Day'-

  Oh boy, Stephen do you ever see the similarites in threats between JWs beliefs and your own views ie Armageddon and Judgement Day and getting one's beliefs inline with a particular religion's point of view.

  You just threatened others for disagreeing with your views.
• 

  Podobear

  Curious isn't it designs... am I just not reading the obvious in the Scriptures? I am no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses for my own reasons. But when it comes to many fundamental Scriptural teachings I still agree wholeheartedly with what Jesus and the Apostles actually said.

  Why should I believe or cower to Stephen's threats? The words of the Apostles on the subject is good enough for me.

  Stephen.. I would remind you of your first cordial greeting and the incident of that ungracious man Davebrown... straight out of the the evil Evangelical bootcamp.. who attacked me unmercifully after the broadcasts of one of your fellow churchmen.

  It was unjustified, unchristian and totally thoughtless.

  Did Jesus resurrect Himself? NO... he did not. Please be gracious enough to comment on all the Scriptures your/my fellow posters have cited that prove that point of view. Jesus has a God and Father, the same one as You and I. That God and Father, resurrected Jesus from the dead.

  Prove otherwise.

  Podo

  Your consideration to my request would be appreciated. Thank you.
• 

  Think About It

  As I mentioned before, if anyone has an issue with Jesus' words then hopefully get it resolved before Judgement Day.

  His fundamentalist cult has many similarites with the JW's. Stephen was never ever a JW, but will come here and bang on the JW's for claiming the only truth, having kooky beliefs, and such. Yet, he'll then claim you need to believe in his version of Jesus as the truth, then kooky things like Jesus is a Superman still in a human bodily form and although you could see Jesus in that Superman body he really isn't a separate God from the invisible Father and Holy Ghost Gods. Don't even get me started on the ridiculous worms in Hellfire, among other things.

  Hebrews 5:7-9 (New International Version)

  7 During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission. 8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him.

  Here's another passage that indicates the one Jesus prayed to "could save him from death". That would mean his resurrection would come from the person he prayed to. Who did he pray to? His Father. If he were also the Father & Holy Ghost it would be utterly ridiculous for him to go off alone all those times to pray to himself if he were omniscience.

  I really don't care one way or the other, but I'm not going to accept something when the overwhelming evidence is against it.

  Think About It
• 

  Podobear

  Think About It: I agree absolutely with you. The transLITeration of certain passages from koine Greek to English can appear ambiguous in our poor modern language. There are about one dozen scriptures that pro Trinitarians use, almost like a centrifuge.

  However the overwhelming canon of Scripture is straight forward and unequivocal. Paul and John especially had no reason to be couched in their phrasiology. Jesus and his Father and God were two distinct beings.

  The gift given to Jesus for his faithfulness was Immortality. If he was Almighty God incarnate, Immortality would hardly have been a reward, would it?

  You and others have pointed out to Stephen many Scriptures telling him that it was God that raised Jesus.

  Let's wait to see if he has the good grace to answer my request to comment on these, or see if he gives me the run around once again.

  Think About It... thanks, I have

  Podo
• 

  Ding

  I found it interesting the Podobear said there are about a dozen scriptures the pro Trinitarians use as proof-texts.

  By contrast, the archangel Michael is only mentioned by name 5 times in the Bible.

  Nowhere is he identified as Jesus.

  The only connection the WT can find is that in 1 Thessalonians 4:6 where the Lord descends with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trumpet call of God.

  This is hardly proof that Jesus is the archangel whose voice is heard any more than he is the trumpet or the trumpeter.

  Jude 9 says that Michael didn't dare rebuke Satan directly, whereas Jesus did so many times as a man (Matthew 16:23, for example)
• 

  tec

  Well... for those of you on Stephen's back about ignoring scriptures that say God raised Jesus...what do you guys think of the scriptures that clearly say that He will raise himself?

  Watching this thread, you seem to be ignoring what you don't want to believe (or cannot understand), yourselves.

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  Trinitarian doctrine aside, one must realise that, for a Christian, you can't get one ( God) without the other ( Jesus).

  Jesus is all that God is, the way, the word, the path to God.

  The whole point of John pointing out that Jesus was begotten was to make clear the distincitiveness of Jesus ABOVE all else.

  God begot Jesus and through Jesus created all.

  Whether or not Jesus "raised" himself is irrelevant since being in perfect union with God, all the God does Jesus does and all that Jesus does is done with God.

  You can't have one without the other.