by Red Piller 443 Replies latest jw friends
@eggnogg.. I can provide a very simple explanation that even you should be able to follow without a ten paragraph retort..
Jesus said this generation would by no means pass away. It didn't. The end came in 70 C.E., less than 40 after he said that. One generation. Thank you for reading and following along.
Fadeotu says: " This particular Promise, according to the Awake!, is for that event to happen "before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." Since it is of course a Promise, the wholly appropriate question to ask is "Who made this promise regarding the 1914 generation?"
On page 4 of this post I did ask this question ,It is very clear that the WTS is the one who made that promise because it didn't come true.
and because they state that they are a spirit directed organization that what they write is not from man
but from God this make them false Prophets,
they themselves don't believe in the stuff they write , because they didn't even wait until 2014 to make they change.
When did "faithful and discreet slave" become a title? It's not a title no more so than the "rich man" in Jesus' parable about the rich man and Lazarus is a title.
Since you're such an expert in English, clearly you realize that Jesus' parable about the rich man or about a group being a faithful slave is descriptive in the Bible. However, the WT capitalizes the pharse Faithful and Discreet Slave in their publications. So, by capitalizing they are making it a title.
As for the generation thing, you certainly put a lot of words out there to attempt to explain such a simple concept. Under your line of reasoning (and the WTS) I am of the same generation as my great grandfather because my life overlapped about 12 years or so with his. He was born in 1890.
Elderelite asks a vaild question. If the fulfillment of Matt 24 was a duel prophesy which had it's first fulfillment in the days leading up to 70 AD which resulted in the destruction of Jerusalem and it's second fulfillment starting in 1914, why doesn't the timeframe match up. Maybe not exactly to the day, but certainly within a similar frame. The fact is that it's been 96 years, more than twice the amount of time. So, either Jesus meant one thing in 33 AD (or CE if you perfer) and something totally different in 1914, or the 1914 date is inaccurate.
Why would Jesus change the meaning of such an easily understood term?
There is no clergy in JWs. There are no titles. Sure, right.
THE Governing Body, THE Faithful and Discreet Slave, Branch Overseer, District Overseer, Circuit Overseer, elders, ministerial servants, pioneers.
@djeggnogneither you nor they can find anywhere in any of our literature that indicates that a disfellowshipped or someone that disassociates themselves from God's organization is cut off from familial association with their own relatives.I always amazes me when JWs say that they do not shun family members. My entire JW family shuns DF family members. All my friends who are ex-JWs are shunned by all of their JW family members.
A quick read of the posts here on JWN shows hundreds of ex-JWs who are being shunned by their JW family members.
FACT: Jehovah's Witnesses DO SHUN Df'd family members.
FACT: they are taught in their literature to do so!
"In the case of where a father or mother or son or daughter is disfellowshiped, how should such person be treated by members of the family in their family relationship?"
"...if the children are of age, then there can be a departing and breaking of family ties in a physical way, because the spiritual ties
have already snapped."
"In the case of the disfellowshiped relative who does not live in the same home, contact with him is also kept to what is absolutely necessary. As with secular employment, this contact is limited and even curtailed completely if at all possible."
"We should not see how close we can get to relatives who are disfellowshiped from Jehovah's organization, but we should 'quit
mixing in company' with them."
"What if a person cut off from God's congregation unexpectedly visits dedicated relatives? What should the Christian do then? If this
is the first occurrence of such visit, the dedicated Christian can, if his conscience permits, carry on family courtesies on that
particular occasion. However, if his conscience does not permit, he is under no obligation to do so. If courtesies are extended
, though, the Christian should make it clear that this will not be made a regular practice.... The excommunicated relative should be
made to realize that his visits are not now welcomedas they were previously when he was walking correctly with Jehovah."
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"...Korah, Dathan and Abiram rebelled. Jehovah confirmed that he was dealing through Moses and Aaron, not through these religious
rebels. Then Moses told the people to get away from the rebels' tents. What would the children and households of Korah, Dathan and
Abiram do? Would they put loyalty to family ahead of loyalty to Jehovah and his congregation? Most of those closely related to the
rebels put family before God. Jehovah executed these relatives along with the rebels.Num. 16:16-33."
"The second situation that we need to consider is that involving a disfellowshiped or disassociated relative who is not in the immediate family circle or living at ones home. Such a person is still related by blood or marriage, and so there may be some limited need to care for necessary family matters. Nonetheless, it is not as if he were living in the same home where contact and conversation could not be avoided. We should keep clearly in mind the Bibles inspired direction: Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person... , not even eating with such a man. 1 Cor. 5:11."
"Christians related to such a disfellowshiped person living outside the home should strive to avoid needless association, even
keeping business dealings to a minimum."
"Great care needs to be exercised that a person's situation as a disfellowshiped sinner is neither overlooked nor minimized. As the sons of Korah well demonstrated, our chief loyalty must be to Jehovah and his theocratic arrangement. We can be sure that when we uphold his standards and prefer association with his organized people, rather than with wrongdoers, we will have his protection and blessing. -Ps. 84:10-12."
"Normally, relatives are often together at meals, picnics, family reunions or other social gatherings. But when someone has unrepentantly pursued sin and has had to be disfellowshiped, he may cause difficulties for his Christian relatives in regard to such gatherings. While they realize that they are still related to him, they do not want to ignore Paul's advice that faithful Christians should quit mixing in company with an expelled sinner."
"If a disfellowshiped relative comes to the Kingdom Hall for the wedding, obviously he could not be in the bridal party there or give away the bride. What, though, if there is a wedding feast or reception? This can be a happy social occasion, as it was in Cana when Jesus attended. (John 2:1, 2) But will the disfellowshiped relative be allowed to come or even be invited? If he was going to attend, many Christians, relatives or not, might conclude that they should not be there, to eat and associate with him, in view of Paul' drections at 1 Corinthians 5:11."
"Would upholding God&..39;s righteousness and his disfellowshiping arrangement mean that a Christian should not speak at all with an expelled person, not even saying 'Hello'? And we all know from our experience over the years that a simple 'Hello' to someone can be the first step that develops into a conversation and maybe even a friendship. Would we want to take that first step with a disfellowshiped person?"
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"Approved association with Jehovah's Witnesses requires accepting the entire range of the true teachings of the Bible, including those Scriptural beliefs that are unique to Jehovah's Witnesses. What do such beliefs include?"
"That Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence and is subordinate to his heavenly Father. (John 14:28) That there is a "faithful and discreet slave" upon earth today 'entrusted with all of Jesus' earthly interests,' which slave is associated with the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. (Matthew 24:45-47) That 1914 marked the end of the Gentile Times and the establishment of the Kingdom of God in the heavens, as well as the time for Christ's foretold presence. (Luke 21:7-24; Revelation 11:15-12:10) That only 144,000 Christians will receive the heavenly reward. (Revelation 14:1, 3) That Armageddon, referring to the battle of the great day of God the Almighty, is near. (Revelation 16:14, 16; 19:11-21) That it will be followed by Christ's Millennial Reign, which will restore an earth-wide paradise. That the first to enjoy it will be the present "great crowd" of Jesus' "other sheep."-John 10:16; Revelation 7:9-17; 21:3, 4."
"{The Apostle] John goes on to say regarding those holding such variant views: "If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."-2 John 7, 10, 11."
"Following such Scriptural patterns, if a Christian (who claims belief in God, the Bible, and Jesus) unrepentantly promotes false teachings, it may be necessary for him to be expelled from the congregation. (See Titus 3:10, 11.)"
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"The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home"
"It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative."
"Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum."
"Sometimes Christian parents have accepted back into their home for a time a disfellowshipped child who has become physically or emotionally ill. But in each case the parents can weigh the individual circumstances."
"Will he bring 'leaven' into the home?"
"Cooperating with the Scriptual arrangement to disfellowship and shun unrepentant wrongdoers is beneficial."
"After hearing a talk at a [Jehovah's Witnesses] circuit assembly, a brother and his fleshly sister realized that they needed to make adjustments in the way they treated their mother, who lived elsewhere and who had been disfellowshipped for six years. Immediately after the assembly, the man called his mother, and after assuring her of their love, he explained that they could no longer talk to her unless there were important family matters requiring contact. Shortly thereafter, his mother began attending meetings and was eventually reinstated. Also, her unbelieving husband began studying and in time was baptized [as a Jehovah's Witness]."
I'm finding it hard to believe that DJ has ever been associated with the JW's
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...OUTLAW
OMG !!!!!
I was having a conversation with my childhood best friend a couple of days ago about this very subject. He is the only person that I chose to help exit. The rest of them I think in one way or another need it. He is beter served knowing the truth.
The conversation arose because we were trying to pinpoint the moment when we looked around and decided that there was something wrong. We were 16 when this announcement came. We were both pissed beyond belief. We had this little clique of regular pioneers that did streetwork together and hung out after service. We had debates in the car and on the way to the Meeting for Field Service about this every day for weeks. Our parents were oblivious and just accepted it.
We determined that this was the beginning of truly questioning and truly wondering if we'd been lied to all of our lives. It took me another 9 years to leave and him another 11. But I thank them for releasing this hot garbage on us. It was the beginning. It was the first question without an answer that was plausible except that they were wrong.
This particular Promise, according to the Awake!, is for that event to happen "before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." Since it is of course a Promise, the wholly appropriate question to ask is "Who made this promise regarding the 1914 generation?"
If this is how you understand God's promise to us, knowing (as you should!) that nobody knows "that day and hour" (Matthew 24:36), then who else can you blame if you yourself were putting faith in these words of encouragement, which is what they are? These words weren't a prediction as you are making them out to be as if the faithful and discreet slave could actually countermand Jesus' clear words at Matthew 24:36.
djeggnog.......they were not words of encouragement.
They didn't say 'maybe the end will come before the gen of 1914 passes away.'
They didn't say 'Probably the end will come before the gen of 1914 passes away.'
Instead, the 'faithful and discreet slave' said that it was THE CREATOR'S PROMISE that the end would come before the gen of 1914 passes away.
And YES, that means that the 'faithful and deiscreet slave' went directly against Matthew 24:36.
Facts are facts.
sorry.
