@caliber:
djeggnog.... Apparently you have a totally clear understanding of the new improved understanding of the term generation .
Now I do, yes. Before the article "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose" [w10 4/15, p. 10, ¶14], I understood the generation to which Jesus referred to be "the generation that saw the events of 1914 [pass] away," which statement appeared on page 2 of the Awake! until the magazine was redesigned. But now, with this "new improved understanding," I will be on more solid ground should the topic come up in my ministry, which it hasn't as yet.
(There you go, @wasblind; the admission you sought from me that Jehovah's Witnesses had prior to the April 15, 2010 Watchtower had a different understanding of what Jesus meant by "this generation" at Matthew 24:34. Now don't go spending all of it in one place. Maybe put some of it in a bank.)
Seeing this is so clear and believable how in the world did it take over 100 years for the Faithful and Discreet Slave to figure out ?
I don't know what you know about the game invented in 1892 by a Canadian doctor, James Naismith, called basketball, but 57 years later, in the summer of 1949, the National Basketball League (NBL) and the Basketball Association of America (BAA) merged and gave birth to the National Basketball Association (NBA), but it took five years before the NBA fully implemented the 24-second shot clock, without which games would become more boring and less exciting for basketball fans. (Now anticipating someone potentially joining this thread just to argue with me about the date I indicated to have been when implementation of the NBA shot clock occurred, I'm willing to say that it was actually implemented back in 1953, but I have said "five years before" and not "four years before," because I'm more comfortable referencing the year when the shot clock was "fully implemented," which was 1954 and not 1953.)
In those days before the shot clock, basketball fans had become increasingly bored with players slowly bringing the ball upcourt, not because of being tired, but because their team was leading on the scoreboard, which was changing the game of hoops to becoming one of fouling the player with the ball and free throws. The three-point shot didn't exist in those days (the three-point line was introduced in 1967 by the non-defunct American Basketball Association), so with no strategic ball placement on the floor, no zone defense, no fast breaks, no steals, no one shooting or rebounding a ball that no one was shooting, it was the shot clock that both innovated and gave prestige to professional basketball.
One could ask why did it take almost 60 years for the NBA to figure out that basketball needed the 24-second shot clock, and why not a 35-, 40- or 50-second shot clock? Taking into consideration that this is similar to your question as to why it took "over 100 years for the Faithful and Discreet Slave to figure out" that at Matthew 24:34 Jesus was there referring to the generation of the sign of his presence as a period of time, and not as to when the lives of his anointed brothers and sisters would end, I'd have to say first that your question assumes that some among the faithful and discreet slave had not already figured out what Jesus meant less than 100 years ago. The question about the 24-second shot clock suffers from the same problem in that there was no NBA until 61 years ago. There was no shot clock in the NBA until its fourth year of operation (I'd call this the "accession year" of the shot clock), but the shot clock came to be fully implemented during its fifth year (I'd call this its "regnal year"), so at the most it took only five years at the most for the NBA to "figure out" that it needed a 24-second shot clock.
As to when it as that the faithful and discreet slave 'figured out' what Jesus meant at Matthew 24:34, I would note that you are one of the few here on this forum that seem to believe there to be a "faithful and discreet slave." Many of the folks here on this board have been persuaded to believe the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses to be synonymous with the "faithful and discreet slave" totally ignoring the fact that less than 10,000 (9,986) were Memorial partakers in 2008. While there were closer to 8,500 Memorial partakers in 2008, the point is that these are the ones with whom the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses regularly discuss doctrinal matters.
The anointed men and women of whom the faithful and discreet slave consist include the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses, but the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses are the ones responsible for providing oversight to the "given ones," those charged with shepherding the flock of God in the local congregations, and among the flock within the local congregation may include those of the faithful and discreet slave class. But after having given many years of prayerful consideration on the matter, the time had finally come to make a necessary adjustment, one that had been contemplated after much discussion among the faithful and discreet slave for many years, as to how Jesus used the word "generation" at Matthew 24:34.
Although this particular adjustment had the potential for causing some in God's organization to stumble, the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses decided it was time back in 2008 to break the news to us of what had overwhelmingly found agreement among the faithful and discreet slave in the article first published in the Watchtower dated February 15, 2008, entitled "Christ's Presence-What Does it Mean to You?" which indicated (in responding to the question, "Can We Calculate the Length of 'This Generation?'") that "[t]he word "generation" usually refers to people of various ages whose lives overlap during a particular time period or event." (w08 2/15, p. 25 [box]) But is there a This article went on to cite Exodus 1:6 and commented: "As a class, these anointed ones make up the modern-day 'generation' of contemporaries that will not pass away 'until all these things occur.'" ( w08 2/15, p. 24, ¶15)
So Jesus did not provide a formula that his followers today could use to be able to discern "that day and hour" when the end of this system of things would come, for Jesus meant it when he said at Matthew 24:36 that "nobody knows." Jehovah's Witnesses may have thought -- and unwisely so -- that maybe Jesus did provide a formula that would enable us to zero in on maybe the year, if not the day and hour, but as anxious as we are for the end of this system of things to arrive, the article in the article, "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose" [w10 4/15] merely builds on what was stated in the aforementioned article, "Christ's Presence-What Does it Mean to You?" [w08 2/15].
It seems that no one on this forum was concerned when the first of these two articles regarding the adjustment explaining what Jesus did not mean at Matthew 24:34 was provided back in 2008 in the article "Christ's Presence-What Does it Mean to You?" Maybe some here remember 2008 when this adjustment was made -- in 2010 this is not a new adjustment! -- but if one should not have been among those attending meetings with Jehovah's Witnesses when this article was being studied by us during the week of April 14-20, 2008, or was there at the time but was maybe distracted by other important matters. Maybe when this article was being considered in the Kingdom Hall that week, you were more concerned with how Bro. Elder needs to buy a suit that fits him better, or maybe with checking to see if Bro. Elder is going to be consistent in not recognizing your hand during the Watchtower study unless your hand is the only one raised, or maybe you are preoccupied with how many times Sis. Annoying allow her children to get up and walk to the back of the Kingdom Hall or how it never seems to bother Sis. Pioneer that her son has a Bible, but hardly uses it to find the scripture to which everyone else in the Hall is turning. It's so true that distractions can be distracting.
It seems that when the second of these two articles regarding the adjustment that was made back in 2008 (regarding what Jesus' did not mean at Matthew 24:34) was being further advanced this year when the article "Holy Spirit's Role in the Outworking of Jehovah's Purpose" was being studied in the local congregations during the week of June 7-13, 2010, or was discussed during the Sunday morning session in the "Summary of The Watchtower" segment during the "Remain Close to Jehovah!" District Convention that many here did not attend, this adjustment then became a big deal, for then some here first become aware that this article had emphasized how Jesus could not have been referring, at Matthew 24:34, to those of the anointed that would be alive during his presence when using the words, "this generation." Rather, they now know that what Jesus was saying at Matthew 24:34 is that this generation to whom the sign of his invisible presence would be discerned would not come to an end until all of the things he said were destined to occur during the conclusion of the system of things did, in fact, occur.
Now how can we know that when Jesus used the word "generation" here that he was not using it in the sense of a literal generation of 20-23 years, or in the sense of the life span of a group of persons as had been inferred by Jehovah's Witnesses in the past? Because in the very next verse Jesus tells us what he meant by his use of the word "generation" in this instance, saying, at Matthew 24:35, "Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will by no means pass away." What words are these? Could he have meant his words as to "this generation"? No, but all of things he had indicated would occur before the conclusion of the system of things during this generation that would discern the sign of his presence, that is to say, during the period when his followers living contemporaneous to it would discern the sign of his invisible presence.
Now some of those that bash Jehovah's Witnesses here on this forum, because due to their cynicism as to the motives of imperfect men or any number of other reasons they cannot or do not want to believe, as do Jehovah's Witnesses, that they are being led by holy spirit, had already abandoned the faith years before they came to learn about the article in the April 15, 2010 Watchtower, and some even years before the February 15, 2008 Watchtower, and so this gripe about this adjustment in our understanding of Matthew 24:34 is not unlike the gripe described earlier over why it was that it took the NBA almost 60 years to figure out that basketball needed the 24-second shot clock (when the NBA had only been around for five years when it was fully implemented!), and why it had to be a 24-second clock, and not be a 35-, 40- or 50-second shot clock.
BTW, the man that saved basketball was Danny Biasone, who was the owner of the NBL Syracuse Nationals, and determined that interest in the game had been waning because the players were not shooting the ball, and guards would strategically and routinely dribble out the clock if they were leading on the scoreboard at the end of every quarter when basketball fans bought tickets expecting to see a competitive scoring contest. (The eight-second rule that had been imposed on a player to advance the ball downcourt from the backcourt across the mid-court line had only served to move the ball into the frontcourt.)
By there being no rule against their not shooting the ball, fans were increasingly losing interest in watching a slow game. Biasone thought by the imposition of a rule that would force players to either shoot the ball or lose possession of it, that this would have the effect of speeding up the game. And it worked! But why 24 seconds?
Well, Biasone did the math: He figured that on the average, about 120 shots are taken in 48 minutes, which means that when multiplying 48 minutes by 60 seconds (2,880) and then dividing the result by 120 shots, the two teams were averaging one shot every 24 seconds. So the 24-second shot clock isn't arbitrary limit, as would be a 35-, 40- or 50-second shot clock, but an idea that not only sped up the game, but when players realized that loitering when bring the ball downcourt was costing them possession of the ball, teams that used to dominate in scoring came to also realize they couldn't win championships unless they had a bench that could dominate in the paint. With the implementation of the 24-second clock in the 1954-55 season, Biasone's Syracuse Nationals (which team later came to be known as "the Philadelphia 76ers") won its first (and only!) NBA championship on its own floor against the Fort Wayne Pistons.
Whether you or anyone else here have ever been a referee for a basketball contest, these basketball rules, although they differ in some respects between the NBA and the NCAA, players tend to know them like Jehovah's Witnesses know their Bibles, and yet there are those here that were taught by Jehovah in that they were taught many things about which the Bible says, taught things that people in Christendom's churches cannot even begin to comprehend. There are people here that have more understanding than does Christendom about the "pure language" of the truth that all Jehovah's Witnesses speak, who have more respect for the game of basketball that they might watch on tv or in person than they do for the things contained in God's word, which things are arguably more important than any basketball contest.
I've explained here the rationale behind the 24-second clock, and the rationale for the adjustment that was made regarding Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34 has scriptural support, but when it's clear that the word "generation" as used there isn't a definition that clearly Jehovah's Witnesses have made up, but we are being led by holy spirit to discern its meaning based on what the holy spirit says at Exodus 1:6 -- yes, the holy spirit says in this verse "and all that generation" -- I'm sorry, but I don't get it.
The Joseph generation is at least 110 years, but then Exodus 1:6 goes on to say "and also all his brothers," and so what is being defined as a "generation" is a period of time greater than Joseph's 110 years since Joseph's siblings were his contemporaries and at least two of them survived Joseph's death. Just think about what this verse is saying --it refers to Joseph and all his brothers as "that generation." Now ten of Joseph's brothers witnessed events before Joseph's birth and at least two of those brothers lived after his death. So while Joseph's contemporaries were of various ages, they were viewed as being a part of "the Joseph generation."
Further, as @Leolaia pointed out, "we know that Levi died some 20 years after [Joseph's death, for] he died at age 137 (Exodus 6:16)," with which I concur since Joseph's sibling Levi was born in 1772 BC, five years before Joseph's birth in 1767 BC, and since Joseph died in 1657 BC at age 110, this would mean that Levi, who died 22 years after Joseph's death in 1635 BC, would have been one of Joseph's contemporaries and would be a part of the Joseph generation.
So is the Joseph generation 133 years in length? Is this 133 years what Jesus had in mind at Matthew 24:34 as being the duration of the sign of his invisible presence until the end will come? Would we be on the right track were we to guess that the end of this system of things will occur some 37 years from now in the year 2047, some 133 years after Jesus' invisible presence began in 1914? No. Why do I say "no"? Because Jesus specifically stated: "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son. You do not know on what day your Lord is coming." (Matthew 24:36, 42) There you go. If Jesus didn't know when the end was coming, then we cannot know when either.
It's all so simple and straight forward , just like the way Jesus always taught clear, simple, easy for the average man on the street to understand !
Is that what you think? That Jesus always taught in "clear, simple, easy" terms so that the average person could understand his teaching? I assume you're familiar with Jesus' parable about the rich man and Lazarus at Luke 16:19-31. Please explain this parable to me. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I can explain it; I can explain all of it using just the Bible, which is why we are regularly counselled against being tied to our notes and to Watchtower publications. People study the rules of basketball, of tennis, of football and of baseball. Some know the rules of chess and they study them to become an expert at chess; or it might be checkers or backgammon or a board game like Monopoly or Uno. All of these things are either sports or games, are they not? Jesus' parable is quite serious. Please explain it to me if you can. Use the scriptures, if you can. Use clear, simple, easy language, if you can.
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, not a seat warmer as many active Jehovah's Witnesses are today, that thought they were joining a Christian church club that was required to show up regularly at congregation meetings and do a little field service every month so that others could see them being one of Jehovah's Witnesses when there are infirm brothers and sisters that listen to audio recordings and watch videos and never show up at congregation meetings or do a little field service every month. Jehovah's Witnesses are those that do what their hearts move them to do in Jehovah's service so that Jehovah can see us being His witnesses.
Do you feel that having 5 previous understandings is a wonderful example of how the light does indeed get brighter and brighter ?
Yes, that's exactly what I think? What of it? Can you do any better? If so, please explain Matthew 24:34 right now in one shot, and please do not use any of the things that you learned from having studied the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses, if that is even possible, which I don't think is possible, but please explain to me your understanding of it.
Did you have this understanding figured out some time ago then "Wait on Jehovah " to reveal it to the Faithful and Wise Servant or is it through recent study and mediation that you have reached your conclusion ?
I learned about what Jesus may have meant at Matthew 24:34 from conversations I've had with members of the faithful and discreet slave, not conversations I've had with members of the governing body who are also members of the faithful and discreet slave, but those folks here on this forum like to refer to as the "rank and file," who may or may not be serving as servants in the local congregation, but are, in fact, "anointed" followers of Jesus Christ. However, none of them have any interest in running ahead of God's organization, so when the news first broke back in 2008, they embraced the adjustment as I did, and when the adjustment was further advanced in 2010, they embraced the adjustment as I did. In God's organization, we all study the Bible, we all know something that others do not know, but we all speak in agreement and we never, ever run ahead of God's organization. When someone does this, they have no desire to be a part of it, and such ones are summarily dismissed from God's spiritual temple. It's not about your conclusion; it's about our being united as a people for God's name.
I apologize for the length of my post, but it took me a couple of day s to write this, because I had a lot to say, and I had to figure out a way to get my basketball analogy in there; otherwise people reading my post, I thought, would just go to sleep and skip reading it.
@caliber:
I'm guessing that if a person can believe that God chose JW's....
Yes, what you say is true, a person can believe whatever he or she wants to believe. What's your point?
@smiddy:
Good points caliber
You evidently read @caliber's post. Help me out, please: What was it? It must have ducked, so that it went right over my head.
@djeggnog wrote:
At Matthew 24:34, Jehovah's [Witnesses] mistakenly thought by Jesus' use of the word "generation" that he was there talking about the lifetime of people. He wasn't. What Jesus was talking about was the period during which the sign of his presence would occur. It is this span of years, this period of the sign of Jesus' presence, that would not pass away until Notice that Jesus is here talking about the generation of the sign as a period of time and not as the lifetime in which only a few of Jesus' anointed brothers would be alive, and it is this wrong viewpoint that moved us to conclude that we could calculate when the end would likely occur by noting how few of the anointed were partaking of the emblems used at Christ's memorial every year, which is rather macabre when you think of it. It's as if we were living in the hope that there would be fewer of Jesus' anointed brothers and sisters with the passing of each year. However, once we came to realize that Jesus was referring to the period during which the sign of his presence would occur, which period began in 1914, we then came to realize that we have no real idea when this period, when this generation of the sign of Jesus' invisible presence, will come to an end. Now we know that it was for ths reason that Jesus went on to say at Matthew 24:36, "Concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father."
So, really, there is but one generation of the sign with the anointed that saw the beginning of this sign and the anointed that will not pass away when the great tribulation comes toward the end of the sign. There is no reason for anyone to be attempting to force two [generations] into becoming a single generation since Jesus only spoke of "this generation," not two generations, and now that this generation has begun, Jehovah's Witnesses are waiting in expectation for this generation of the sign to end, and we hope that this will be soon.
@Gary1914 wrote:
Convoluted Watchtower reasoning. You even managed to get the year 1914 in there. lol
How so?
Did you defend the 1995 change this vigorously? No matter.
Yes, I did. Your point?
Just reserve some of that vigor for the next generation change.
If there is such a change, I'm sure I'll have it (that vigor of which you speak).
However, I've got to admire how they got around the fact that the number of [anointed] was actually increasing and not decreasing. Very clever. I wonder how many board meetings it took to come up with this new spiel?
I think you're off-topic or making things up here. No one said a thing about the number of the anointed increasing, except you. You seem to be referring to something you didn't quite understand from one of the annual meetings, but I'm guessing here. Please explain this "spiel" of yours.
@ProdigalSon:
This is what happens when we try to interpret a metaphor literally. The initiates knew that when Jesus said, "let the reader use discernment", he was reminding them that there was a deeper symbolic meaning to his words.
Say what? Where does Jesus say "let the reader use discernment" here at Matthew 24:34? Are you off on some tangent without announcing to anyone where you wish to take us? That's fine, but there is no metaphor here (and a metaphor, by definition, is not literal, for it is a figure of speech).
How difficult a concept is it, how many times did Jesus (AND Paul by the way) have to say it, before we finally "get it" that the "holy place", the "temple" is WITHIN US?
There is no temple within us. This sounds to me like something your believe to be true about God's great spiritual temple, which is a holy place, but those of us that are wearing the symbolic white robes that were issued to us at baptism are the ones that are in the earthly realm of God's temple. It seems to me that you are off-topic though.
The "abomination of desolation" is something INTERNAL, which we flee from and take refuge in the "mountains", which is the Mountain of God, the CHRIST WITHIN US.
What is the "Christ within us" of which you speak? That expression -- Christ within us -- isn't found in the Bible, so from where did you get it? From where does it come? What the relationship between the "abomination of desolation" you mention, the "mountain of God" and the "Christ within us"? None of this sounds scriptural to me, but I'd like to know about this teaching of yours, what it means to you.
It's just like those 7 mountains in Revelation that the Harlot sits on... our Seven Chakras.
As to these "seven mountains" you mention, are you referring to political wild beast in Revelation 17, and if so, what's you point of mentioning the seven mountains and the harlot that sits on the "scarlet-colored wild beast"? How does it connect to our discussion here regarding Matthew 24:34?
What Christian today has to worry about his or her flight occurring on the Sabbath?
No Christian today has any necessity to flee from Jerusalem on the sabbath or at all, since what Jesus stated at Matthew 24:20 was specific to the Jewish Christians when the Roman armies advanced on Jerusalem back in 66 AD. Again, you're off topic.
According to the text we have today, much of it artfully contrived centuries afterward to fit an agenda, Jesus was speaking to the generation of Jews that were alive in the first century in Jerusalem. He was predicting the end in their lifetime.
This is correct.
Not co-incidentally, all the Apostles and disciples ended up with the impression that the end was coming in their lifetime.
What makes you say this?
When the Bible writers ran out of "generation" just like the Watchtower did, and people started getting antsy and ridiculing, then someone claiming to be "Peter" addressed the issue by reminding the doomsday faithful that "one day to God is as a thousand years".
You've making this up, but I'm sure you knew that.
@Heaven:
Prodigal Son... well said.
What was "well said"? What I read was off-topic.
And here it is .... a new day is dawning... and still absolutely NO arrival of Armageddon.
I have faith that when Armageddon arrives, you will definitely be among the first to learn of its arrival.
@caliber wrote:
Do you feel that having 5 previous understandings is a wonderful example of how the light does indeed get brighter and brighter ?
@Black Sheep wrote:
I wish I could get it through my family's thick skulls that not believing doctrines that are now discarded isn't evidence of a major character flaw.
Huh?
@wasblind wrote:
Concerning the Generation teaching on page 97 and also on page 200 In the reasoning book, it is written that the generation that was alive in 1914 will also see the complete destruction of the present wicked world.... With this recent change, that promise has been taken from one generation and given to the generation that overlaps.
@djeggnog wrote:
What "promise" do you mean? No promise was made to anyone, but in 1985 when the book, "Reasoning From the Scriptures" was released, and also when this book was later revised in 1989, Jehovah's Witnesses did not understand at that time that Jesus' reference to "this generation" at Matthew 24:34 referred (1) to his anointed brothers that were alive in 1914 and (2) would include those of his anointed brothers living contemporaneous with the period of the sign of Jesus' presence until the great tribulation and the conclusion of the system of things, whose lives would overlap the lives of some of those of his brothers that were alive in 1914.
@wasblind wrote:
Hey DJ, I answered your question, and now you totally ignore me without a [response].
I believe I did answer your question.
So I'll ask again who Promised a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away ? Reminder: God cannot lie, so who did ?
When I responded to your post, you weren't referring to what you posted in the Awake! magazine, and if you were, there was no way for me to have known that you weren't referring to the Reasoning book when you wrote:
With this recent change, that promise has been taken from one generation and given to the generation that overlaps.
I was responding to what you wrote, but I'll answer this latest question of yours.
I believe what the Awake! stated was that "Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away." In view of the recent adjustment, I suppose this could be revised to say,"Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the Creator's promise of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation of the sign that began in 1914 passes away," but, to answer this latest question, the "promise of a peaceful and secure new world" is Jehovah's.
So I'll ask again, who Promised a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away ? Is there any JW on board who can answer this ? If you truly believe this religion is the "TRUTH", please answer.
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses and my answer to your question is that it was Jehovah made the promise of a peaceful and secure new world.
@Mad Sweeney:
From page one:
I think the society can do what they like doctrinally, as long as they don't take the paradise away.
Meaning what exactly? The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society is the publishing house, staffed by Jehovah's Witnesses, that prints the Bible and Bible-based literature that we Jehovah's Witnesses use in our Christian ministry, and is nothing more than that. It's foolish for anyone to say that a publishing company could "take ... paradise away." It's also a stupid thing for anyone to say.
@doinmypart:
[crickets chirping]
Wasblind - I don't think you'll get an answer. DJ conveniently overlooked your post from the Awake title page.
Why would you say this? You don't know me at all, so you would do well to ask folks about me. I do the best I can to answer everyone's post if directed to me, that is, as long as I'm not being trolled, and sometimes I answer those posts as well.
I didn't conveniently overlook @wasblind's post(s), nor anyone else's post. I wasn't going to respond to yours, because I thought you to be ignorant, but then I thought, why not? I've responded to ignorant posts before, so why not yours?
@Red Piller:
Djeggnog and Leolalia, I am a born in and am active now for 40 plus years. I know that if you presented this dual generation/Joseph explanation say around 1983 - you would've been disfellowshipped unless you "humbly accepted counsel" to never do it again.
We all knew the clock was ticking based on folks who were alive during WWI. Anyone who says otherwise either is lying or [simply] wasn't there.
What "clock"? When you became one of Jehovah's Witnesses, did you think that Jehovah's Witnesses knew the "day and hour" when the end of this system of things was going to occur? Yes or no? If your answer to this question should be "no," then what on earth would have made you wait around for "40 plus years" knowing that you felt the way you did? If your answer to this question was "yes," then you should seek out someone mature in the congregation and see if he or she would be willing to study the Bible with you.
There is no such thing as time travel, and so when I hear folks saying what you say here about folks being disfellowshipped for saying what was first published back in 2008, which you like many folks here probably missed, or what was published this year (2010) regarding the meaning of Jesus' words at Matthew 24:34, I think them to have another motive for sticking around, that they are just faultfinders and naysayers that are seat warmers and nothing more that have never quite understood the seriousness of our dedication to Jehovah. People like you are a disappointment, and may even be someone's loss, someone's "burned up" work (1 Corinthians 3:15), and it's unfortunate that there are so many of you.
@djeggnog
