Ray Franz Was Wrong

by Farkel 144 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  GLTirebiter

  Were the GB members victims, too?

  They certainly were before they became GB members, when they were seduced or born into the organization. They may have, probably did, fall for the same spiel they themselves were writing.

  But that doesn't matter. As they rise through the ranks, from publisher to MS, then to elder, then to overseer, and ultimately onto GB they accept increasing responsibility within the organization, and as GB members are the final authority within the organization. Victims or not, they have a duty to the other members of the organization. They must question every assumption they hold, every decision they make, because their words and decisions affect the bodies and souls of millions of other people who are trusting them to make the right moves and not mislead them. When they make a mistake they are obliged to rectify it, when they don't know the answer they must admit it. If they realize these obligations are beyond them, they should step down.

  Yes, I think they probably are among the victims. But for people in positions of authority, that is no excuse!

  Ray Franz did the honorable thing, telling the world what was happening, not playing "yes-man" to hold onto his status. May he rest in peace!
• 

  seenitall

  All members of the GB know the dirt and then some. They come from various branches, CO, DO, missionary field. They have seen, taken care and fought to tow the company line with total, unreserved obedience. The grooming they undergo and close watching to finally be invited into the exclusive club takes years. Many can not make it that far due to pressure from mental strain, inner conscience, wive's objections, etc. One thing is for certain they know everything and then make a decision to totally bury it and only follow the strict rules to the letter of the law. Many decisions are already made for them by committees, helpers, wt legal and wt accounting. It is all laid out, they give their thumbs up and things move forward. They feel and are certain Jehovah is backing everything due to growth and fewer complaints from elders, pubs and bethelites. It is only when the complaints start coming into the service dept, donations are off and decline of pubs that things are attacked. It is delusional thinking.

  I liken it to a bee hive - queen bee (GB) with all the soldiers, workers so busy they don't have time to think. The GB hates for any to have time to really think. The clever spins on things - simplification & suggestions - really to cover over and keep it moving. Scandals are addressed as hatred by opposers, don't believe it, lies of apostates, etc.

  Never will there be honest open acknowledgment by GB of wrong teaching, false doctrine, needless rules causing death or the like - the perfect response "the light is getting brighter"! Yet, they are and continue to be responsible. I would hate to be in their shoes come judgment day (wait, they think they are above it even in the flesh - due to poor interpetation of scripture).

  When Old man Armstrong died - the apology of his son - Garner Ted Armstrong was so sincere. Would JW leadership ever do the same? A view on Youtube of this is worth a watch.
• 

  diamondiiz

  That was the same phrase I didn't agree in Ray's book. Maybe until 1980 they still believed all the shit they teach. And maybe until then they may have been viewed as victims of victims but not today. We have all the materials needed for research not far from home. Internet can reveal facts that we may not have been able to find near us or without spending huge sums of money to travel to museums that can show artifacts and so on about our research. If GB and the top leadership don't search these things out then they are ignorant fools. If they ignore the facts that are presented they are morons. But than again it was in the late 70s that GB was presented with the info on 607 from Carl Jonsson and they rejected it thus making them at least dumbasses who deserve to die without seeing their hopes fulfilled. I don't believe today they are victims of victims but are vampires sucking the blood life out of 7 million followers.
• 

  thetrueone

  Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely

  Perhaps it was the orchestrated 2/3 vote that got Franz thinking this might really all be Bullshit.

  Picture the scenario of all the GB members gathered at a meeting to make doctrinal decisions or

  decisions about the organization itself and the meeting starts with a solemn prayer to Jehovah for

  his spiritual guidance. Then after an hour of topical discussions they come to voting on the items discussed

  and then they realize there is much disagreement on the items by independent members.

  I think this where Ray realized that this organization was never guided by god's spirit and that it was guided

  solely by mens individualistic self induced ideology of themselves, a deadly pretension of wanted power circumvented

  and structured around a publishing house.
• 

  St George of England

  Each member of the GB has too much to lose by rocking the boat.

  At 60 years of age Ray Franz had to find a job, accomodation and suddenly do all the things he had been used to having done for him. He had to pay the gas, electricity, health bills. He was lucky, his wife supported him in his decision that affected her as much as him.

  I cannot see any member of the current GB, whatever they may feel, believe or think, giving it all up as he did. I don't think any of their wives would let them either!

  George
• 

  Satanus

  Ray never left 'the boat' willingly. The other gb members forced him out. Would he have left in protest in the course of time?? Judging by his softness on the gb style of his writing, and softness on the wt corp style of his writing, i think not. He was a little peked at his uncle. That's about it. He never made his books personally antigb, in any way.

  S
• 

  thetrueone

  I do think that Ray Franz kind of white washed over his involvement with the GB.

  Lets face it, when men eventual climb up to the top of the WTS spiritual tower, they are

  men who want to indulge themselves and into this elevated state. There is an element of

  heighten personal stature that that can not go unnoticed or acknowledged.

  Another thing that has to be noticed when an organization self proclaims itself as the one and true

  organization guided by god there develops an enormous amount of arrogance within the organization itself,

  an arrogance that as can be seen with impunity on the groups outward teachings and proclamations.

  When men start thinking of themselves as gods shit happens
• 

  eyesthatsee

  I agree with Farkel, but would widen the use of the term 'criminal'.

  The many senior Bethel managers (many of these used to be called 'Bethel Elders') also know the fraud and lies.

  But they're too deep into the quicksand - they would literally lose everything if they spoke up.

  Much worse than that, they continue to perpetrate the lies of 'do more, the end is close, pioneer now, only diving education' etc etc., thereby taking an active part in ruining peoples' lives.

  Most of these are wannabe GB members.

  All criminals in my view - and also part victims - 80:20 on balance.

  I could name some and will in the future.

  ETS
• 

  funnyface

  I havent read all the posts but being Mouthy I want to add my thoughts
  I met Ray & Cynthia wonderful honest folks... I believe the GB lot are Victims
  of the Devil, He took over their minds ,Russells mind was taken first ,
  he told someone else & so on & so on.Who did YOU preach it to????
  Who did you convert??? Did YOU check it all out before you surrendered your mind???I did NOT
  Most of the men that became a victim loved the power ,Me? I just wanted to work to get my sins
  forgiven ...When the GB got the power,They used it ,Like training dogs on a leash.

  O.k. the Rocks may now be tossed ,Im outta here
• 

  thetrueone

  In a true sense, the WTS organization is very much a pyramid of power, its is structured solely for

  men to climb in segments to reach to the very top tier of this structured pyramid

  of spiritual power and strength.

  Unfortunately it was inspired and founded by the progressive circulation of its own

  published works, exploited from the belief in the bible, only to further to create an exploitation of those select believers.