The Doctrine of Hell (page 22)

Deputy Dog

designs You're no theologian. You still think like a JW

Confutation 1. Where is Hell with a God that is Omnipresent (everywhere).

That's a straw man if ever I saw one. Hell is all about God's wrath, not location.

See the problems. Is God filling every point of space in Hell with his Being but not everywhere present or not equally diffused throughout Hell.

No I don't see any problem.

This was from one of their top Theologians

He's so well known you don't even give him a name or a place to look him up. At least try to be honest.

Amos 9:2 - digging down to Hell, King James Version...the only real Bible to some

The King James is one one of the few that translates it that way.

You know this is the same type of idea being expressed in Rev 6:16 where men are trying to hide from God's wrath

Exactly according to the Trinity- So what does that say about the Catholic/Protestant/Evangelical view of Hell and the God who is there running it and planning the eternal agonizing (far worse than even literal fire according to Deputy Dog) torture of the people.

If you're gonna quote ME, get it right, Hell is more about God's wrath than a "physical" location.

Two Beings or One Being, who is Omnipresent and taking up all space and time. Now is Hell and the Devil inside this or a part of Everything. Where else is there room left, are the Devil and Hell in the Being of God and the Totality of his Holiness. If not is there someplace other than Everywhere.

That's a good one, next you'll be teaching particle physics. Will you be teaching us about how big the universe really is and the location of "everything".

Christians, unlike JWs, don't claim to be able to understand the "nature" of God. We simply try to apprehend what he tells us in His word.

PSacramento

If we read the bible from OT to NT end, we can see a "progression" of understanding about the nature of being dead:

The one consistency if I recall correctly is that the spirit always goes back to God.

There was the view that we died, period.

That we died and could be "recalled"

That we died (soul dired)and awaited a bodily ressurection ( not beleived by all Jews though)

That we died, soul slept and wait for boduly ressurection.

That we died, soul slept and/or spent time in a "state" ( Paradise or purgatory), ressurection to eternal life with God.

Same as above but Heaven on Earth.

Same as above but before heaven on Earth we have multiple ressurctions and final judgment and then heaven on Earth.

I may have missed some views there, sorry just going on memory.

So there was a progrssion from:

Death to Life after death to Life after life after death.

Yizuman

People have a misconception that "Hell" and "Lake of Fire" to be of the same thing.

It's not.

God's justice system isn't really all that different from Man's justice system.

Hell is a lock up, a jail, as it were. For those that chooses sin and seperation from God after they die, they will find themselves getting locked up until they have their day in court.

Revelation 20:11-15 (King James Version)

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

As you can see on verse 14, hell were cast into the lake of fire. So if Hell and Lake of Fire is one of the same, how can hell cast itself into hell?

Note also that in verse 15, the only way to escape the lake of fire is that your name had better be found in the Lamb's Book of Life, otherwise it's adios!

I'm pretty sure that those that think they're much nicer than God will be pretty angry about this, especially from those that advocate against the death penalty.

Why is it that there are those that wants justice and punishment against those that has done wrong against them and their families, yet turn around and speak against the concept of God's justice and punishment?

They're both the exact same thing, but there are those that don't see it that way.

Yiz

Ding

Yiz,

Other translations read "death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire."

Under that view, hades is the temporary place of the dead whereas hell is the lake of fire, the permanent place of punishment.

TTWSYF

To me, the bible makes total sense. Not that I'm a fundamentalist, but I think of the bible meaning what it says. That Jesus [and others] desended down infers below my feet. Couple that with the scriptural references that hell is at the earths center lead me to believe that [a biblical] hell is at the earths core. I know, it's crazy, but that is what the scriptures say, and the technology to prove or disprove this theory does not yet exist.

An example of the soul/spirit/body differential, in Genesis can easily be explained. God created the world in seven days. Obviously the days are different [longer] where he resides, heaven, [even if he is everywhere]. Adam was the 1st man made with a soul, but the nephilim had already been on the earth and were [more than likely] the humans [with spirit, but not a soul] that the fallen angels had relations with, [as recorded in Genesis].

On the trinity comments, it should be noted that scripture states that Jesus Christ is God, That the Father is God, That the Holy Ghost is God without using the word trinity, it is non the less scripturally inferred. One example is that Jesus orders us to baptise on the name of the Father, the Son & the Holy Ghost. One name for the 3 separate beings. Wait for the helper, not wait for help...the Holy Ghost is the Helper.

Of course this is just my own thought process as one must ultimately make a 'leap of faith' when you actually accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. When you know that Jesus would have gone through it all, just for you, even if you were the only person on earth, well, then you've made the leap too!

respectfully,

DC

Yizuman

Other translations read "death and hades were thrown into the lake of fire."

What translation is that, if I may please ask? Was that NIV?

The only translation I find to be the most reliable is to be the KJV, simply because at the time when the manuscripts in which they had on hand in 1500s before the KJV was published in 1611, they had over 8,000 manuscripts on hand to work with when the work to translate both the OT and the NT into the English language.

Today there's far fewer than 300 of those manuscripts that survived the harsh environment called aging.

I recommend a good book written by a former atheist entitled, "Evidence That Demands A Verdict" by Josh McDowell. A subject regarding the KJV is mentioned there.

Yiz

Ding

Yizuman,

The New King James as well as the NIV and the ASV says "Hades."

The Greek word itself is hades.

Deputy Dog

Yiz

Today there's far fewer than 300 of those manuscripts that survived the harsh environment called aging.

There are far more manuscripts today. I believe there are more than 24,000 partial and complete manuscript copies of the New Testament alone.

PSacramento

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Testament_papyri

And that is JUST what is on papryus.

Lists

Chalam

People have a misconception that "Hell" and "Lake of Fire" to be of the same thing.

It's not.

Amen!

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)

14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Revelation 20:14 (English Standard Version)

14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:14 (King James Version)

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

The word for hell here is ades i.e. Hades.

After the white throne judgment Hades is throne into the lake of fire, hence most people call the second death "hell" as well.

Blessings,

Stephen

The Doctrine of Hell

Revelation 20:14 (New International Version)

Revelation 20:14 (English Standard Version)

Revelation 20:14 (King James Version)

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