*Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  debator

  Why the question?

  The Jehovah's witnesses accept that real Faith inspires works which is the point James makes. A pretense of Faith is shown to be dead because it would not inspire works.

  Preaching just becomes an annnoying thing accept to those that truly believe the life-saving message from God they are bringing to people.

  The 2 criminals next to Jesus certainly did have works if you read the story.

  luke 23:39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

  and the one Jesus promised paradise to???

  40 But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

  42 Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. [f] "

  The other criminal rebuked the one insulting Jesus. His next words show he fully believed Jesus was innocent and in the kingdom promise.

  I don't know how you can say he hadn't done works? his faith in Jesus and God's kingdom is there for all to see. Maybe it is your definition of works that is skewed?
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  elderelite

  LOL!!!! debator you are rich!! I dare you, at the end of this month, to quote the evil doer just as you did above, when asked for your service time
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  debator

  Why do you ask? I'm not saying the Criminal/evildoer is going to heaven, Jesus is very clear the man gets Paradise and he comforted him with that promise.
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  elderelite

  Debator my man, as JW's we dont accept "personality refinement" as a "work". the evil doer did NOTHING that as JW's we would concider "works worthy of repentance". He did however change his mindset and the was, evidently(tm) all that Jesus asked for. That is far and away from what our organisation asks for.

  So again I say, at the end of the month, when service time is being turned in, just hand in a slip that explains that you didn't engage in the ministry per say, but you did follow the law of loving kindness, you spent the month taking care of orphans and widows for example, as James talks about, and lets see what that gets you from the local elders.
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  elderelite

  I'm also a little confused debator... when you say "

  I'm not saying the Criminal/evildoer is going to heaven, Jesus is very clear the man gets Paradise and he comforted him with that promise.

  what do you mean by that? Is heaven better than paradise?
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  Deputy Dog

  Debator

  The other criminal rebuked the one insulting Jesus. His next words show he fully believed Jesus was innocent and in the kingdom promise.

  So simply rebuking people who insult Jesus is ENOUGH for JWs?

  I didn't say he had no works. He admited he lived as a criminal his whole life. No Door to door preaching, no meetings, yet he was promised paradise. How's that working for you?
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  isaacaustin

  Reniaa/Debator, why don't you want to answer DD's question? Does it back you into a corner as far as defending JW doctrine?
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  isaacaustin

  DD, the Wt recently wrote that even those who 'give a cold cup of water to one of these little ones..." quoting from Matthew, would not be doing enough to be saved. The WT is speaking as 'one of these little one's' is a JW, while the one giving a cold cup of water is one supporting them but not becoming a JW. Even if this were a proper application to the JWs, the WT ignores the rest of Jesus words that the one giving a cold cup of water would by no means lose their reward.
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  Deputy Dog

  Isaac

  Debator said:

  Maybe it is your definition of works that is skewed?

  I think it's funny she calls into question my definition of works when its the WT's definition that we're talking about here.

  Debator

  What you need to think about is your definition of grace. And what works YOU believe are a condition to recieve it.
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  isaacaustin

  DD, regardless of what definition she wants to put on works, Ephesians and Romans make clear that the two are mutally exclusive...grace, or undeserved kindness, is no longer that if works are required to receive it. In any case, the 'workss' done by the criminal did not earn him a place in paradise (be it in heaven or earth- location not being the issue in this conversation right now).

  But, lets see where she takes this too.