I Believe Full Disclosure Is Moving Forward

by metatron 73 Replies latest jw friends

  • cognizant dissident
    cognizant dissident

    Vamp: No, I'm not a nudist, that would be more exposure than I wanted to see, never mind anybody else!

    However, clothing, and lack thereof, is very much part of our cultural heritage and conditioning. I see no reason why an advanced alien from another species and another planet would have the same conditioning and the same need to wear "briefs". Briefs are not even commonly worn by all humans.

    Assuming the old guy did not have dementia and was not delusional from drugs, I find it more believable that some military scientists had some poor, bald, old human locked in a cage, wearing only briefs and were doing some kind of weird experiments on the poor guy to turn him into a grayish orange mutant.

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    This thread got my curiosity going and I decided to have a look at the video "documentary" UFO Files - The Untold History of the Disclosure Project (Steven Greer, 2004), available on p2p networks (may be available from other sources?). It is basically a talk given by this guy who at first speaks rather convincingly about the way things are with respects to governments, power, and visitors from other worlds. The fellow is entertaining at least. However, there are aspects of his story that don't quite fit with my current world view which has obviously been jaded considerably by having been a Witness for most of my life. A convincing story does not make "truth."

    The gist of his speech:

    The visible governments are not really in control. There is a power elite, "a kleptocracy," that maintains a stranglehold on energy and technology to keep the world population under their control. The aliens have attempted to interact at various times to help humanity stop its destructive course, especially since the 1950s when the nuclear arms race ramped up. Alien technology could end environmental destruction and dependence on fossil fuels. Alien technology could be used for peaceful purposes to satisfy the needs of all humans and not just those privileged enough to afford it. However, full disclosure and open dealings with the aliens would upset the current paradigm of power which is maintained outside legitimate governmental control. In this group, rank does not have its privileges. According to Greer, being a general, CIA director, or even president is no guarantee of being "in the know." However, this being an "open secret" and "conspiracy theory" as it were, mainstream media disinformation strategies all but guarantee the marginalization of any official who "comes out."

    Why I don't buy it:

    1. Conspiracy theories

    This is the hard part. I tend to agree with some points he makes. Sort of. I think there is a "kleptocracy" of sorts, though not the kind that he refers to. I don't think the "visible" governments have complete control, but I don't think those who pull the strings behind the scenes have complete control either. Power and control are human narratives, and as such are illusions. Direct force is not an illusion, but it is impossible to carry out on the entire population without killing the system on which the power elite depend. When the dog dies, where do the parasites go?

    As Noam Chomsky once pointed out, those in power do what they will by manufacturing the consent of the governed. Most of the time the socio-political system works because it is human nature to work cooperatively. Selective use of violence such as police state tactics, counter-insurgency operations, and all out war serve to maintain enough illusion of control to dissuade those who may be less inclined to cooperate. It's not a perfect system, it is not fair, and it is complicated and messy.

    Nevertheless, state sanctioned violence is ultimately counterproductive, and they know it, which is why more sophisticated means are used in advanced societies where people can feel invested in the system. To most, being cut out of the system is a fate worse than death. It is an old human narrative where exile was considered a useful punishment for criminals. (Shunning among JWs is derived from this narrative.) Today, one's level of success and comfort in life depends on how well one is integrated with the system and financial failure has become a form of "exile" to be avoided at all costs. Anyway, like I said, it can be hard to sort out the narratives and their underlying premises.

    Human society is an evolving entity. No single person or group designed things to be the way they are. Unlike Greer and many similar conspiracy theorists, I don't think any individual or group has "ultimate" power. If there are aliens, they would know this and supposedly could bypass this so-called conspiracy. I try not to dismiss conspiracies out of hand, however, extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof.

    2. "Everybody lies" - Dr. House

    So, what kind of proof does Greer present? No documented evidence is presented in this video. I'm not very good at reading people either. He seems to be a likeable person. He has a convincing manner. He is good at public speaking. He talks about conversations he has had with government officials in different administrations. He says that he has proof which has even convinced key individuals in the mainstream media. Is he telling the truth?

    3. Alien technology

    There are a couple current human narratives from our "progress" oriented culture in the claims he makes:

    You can get something for nothing - Alien technology uses the fabric of space itself to produce energy, no need for fossil fuels

    Technology solves problems - Used peacefully, Alien technology could turn the Earth into a Paradise

    I've been aware of Peak Oil and related energy and environmental concerns for over 5 1/2 years to date. I'll just say that there is no free lunch. The fact that our civilization runs on fossil fuels is not the result of a conspiracy. Simply put, it is a matter of Energy Return on Energy Invested. Anyone who tries to sell an alternative that seemingly violates the laws of thermodynamics is a con artist or deluded (or both).

    Having read such authors as John Zerzan, Derrick Jensen, Willian Kotke, James Kunstler, and Jared Diamond, I also have to disagree with the so-called technology narrative and its related economic growth narrative. Human society exists on energy surplus. Our current cultural complexity is derived from the surplus energy of fossil fuels. So-called alternatives (real ones, not fantasy alien ones) often proposed are in fact heavily dependent on fossil fuels. Fossil fuels are themselves finite and subject to the laws of thermodynamics. Technology does not equal energy. Money does not equal energy. Social complexity directly correlates with overall energy surplus. The decline in net energy available to humanity will have a great impact in coming decades. I'm not saying fossil fuel use is a good thing, but by now we are locked into a way of living for which there is no viable alternative that isn't politically impossible to achieve. Much has been written on this subject, and a number of documentaries have been made as well.

    (see A year before 9/11/2001 happened in the USA, a terrifying incident of a different sort happened in Europe and I keep hearing that once "non-conventional oil" is accounted for, we have trillions of barrels of oil.)

    3. The sales pitch

    By the end of this video, I realized that it was a sales pitch. Several times, and especially towards the end, reference is made to getting "support" from others. Greer mentions that their company is trying to develop alien technologies in an effort to circumvent the conspiratorial "elite" that opposes them. Sound familiar? "You can live Forever in Paradise, but Satan the Devil wants to keep you under his control, and he controls the world." Developing or aquiring alien technologies must require funding of some sort, and a request for "support" was very much implied towards the end, but no mention of money was directly made in this video. I guess all cults try to make it easy to swallow the bate.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Has anyone ever visited The Cult New Network website?

    http://www.cultnews.net/

  • undercover
    undercover

    Thanks for that link LWT...

    Had to scroll back a few days to get to a JW link... but good news. Fred Hall is still alive and kicking...

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    Did you notice that he lumps "UFO Believers" in with JWs, Scientologists, Moonies, etc?

  • undercover
    undercover

    Yea, I've been reading more of the comments than the articles. Good stuff there...

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    PrimateDave: The visible governments are not really in control. There is a power elite, "a kleptocracy," that maintains a stranglehold on energy and technology to keep the world population under their control.

    Historical ancedotes also reveal this. Greer is sayiong nothing new here.

    quote:

    The Targum states that the throne belonged to Solomon, and that twenty four eagles, stationed above the throne, cast their shadow upon the king's head as he sat down. Whenever Solomon desired to go anywhere, these eagles would transport him and his throne thither. Hence we see that the Targum represents the eagles as the bearers of the throne

    The shadows of eagles represents the shadow governments. The eagles as bearer of the throne shows their greater power united than that of a singular representative king.

    Have you read Handbook for a New Paradigm? It is a free ebook. It describes what the whole disclosure scenerio will be about. Supposedly the aliens will have this to say "did you really expect us to transport all of you out of here? what with all of your problems of divisions between you all? We do not have enough spaceships for all of you and besides, you all need to work out your global problems. Otherwise the evil here will contaminate the rest of the galaxy. That is why you are isolated here.

    According to this book, these aliens will also reveal that the human race was a "mistake" genetically, and our creators dumped us off at the edge of this universe thinking we would gradually die out or kill each other off.

  • Mickey mouse
    Mickey mouse

    I think there probably is life on other planets but if it/they were visiting, we would know.

    I refuse to believe that ET is in cahoots with the U.S military.

  • PrimateDave
    PrimateDave

    Well, Cameo, I'm not denying that there's a kleptocracy. What I am denying is the existence of a "prison planet" style conspiracy. There is no evil elite in control. There is only us. We humans collectively are our own source of good and evil, and that "good" and "evil" is highly subjective to cultural narratives. The kleptocracy exists because the narrative of control is an illusion (see my previous post), and there are those in a position to recognize that fact to their advantage.

    Once you can see outside the comfort zone of believing in things like Santa Claus, Religion, God, Country, Democracy, and Constitution (all stories we Americans collectively tell each other to maintain complex social cohesion), you see what really exists: a planet full of bipedal sentient primates that tell each other socially cohesive stories while consuming limited resources (citing the "economic growth is good" narrative) and creating waste products of varying degrees of complexity from simple carbon dioxide to radioactive isotopes (entropy) and plastic bottles (for drinking clean water because the rivers and lakes are so polluted) to skyscrapers (temples built in honor of the "property" narrative). We will keep making garbage (everything I currently own and use will eventually become garbage) and telling each other stories until it is no longer possible to sustain complex social cohesion. (Those are the "overshoot" and "collapse" narratives.)

    Is there interstellar life? Sure. It's mostly single-celled like our bacteria. The likelihood of lifeforms evolving with a comparable degree of intelligence to humans is a possibility, though I suspect uncommon. Whether any kind of intelligent lifeform has developed a form of interstellar travel is yet an order of magnitude less likely. If an interstellar lifeform took an interest in "our" rock, why should one assume that it shares our cultural narratives or resembles us in any way? Like Cognitive Dissident wrote in a previous post, modesty is a human narrative, so why would an alien wear briefs? The stories are fake. The tellers are frauds. The believers are gullible.

    Cameo, let's take a look at your last two paragraphs. First there is the "salvation" narrative. Somehow, the "gods" (or aliens or technology) are supposed to save humanity from calamity. However, due to our "sins" (wars, divisions, genetic mistakes) we may not be judged worthy to be transported to "paradise" (either on Earth or in space ships). Does any of this sound familiar? Sin, salvation, and paradise are endemic to human religions, not because aliens or gods are real, but because human culture is an evolved product of our recently acquired social complexity. Our social complexity over the past 10,000 years is due to the fact that humans learned to create food surpluses by domesticating certain plants and animals. However, because environmental variables are mostly beyond human control, human communities have been wiped out due to crop failure and plagues. Because they did not understand the inanimate forces at work, tribal humans told stories attributing disaster to angry deities that could be placated with sacrifices. Yada, yada, yada. Get the picture? Human ignorance made the gods of yore. The same narratives spawn stories of aliens today.

    As with religious cults who sell god to unsuspecting quasi-sentient bipedal primates, there will be those who sell alien "salvation" to those with more money than sense. Careful, there's a hook in that bait.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    bttt

    Britain Releases its ‘real-life’ X-Files

    Britain’s secret X-Files, released and unclassified Thursday, reveal hundreds of investigations of unidentified flying objects, some genuine mysteries and a few slapstick close encounters.

    “These are the real-life X-Files,” said Nick Pope, former UFO investigator for the British government in his assessment of the release.

    “Most UFO sightings had conventional explanations, but a small percentage remained unexplained. These included cases where UFOs were seen by police officers, chased by pilots and tracked on radar.”

    More than 8,500 pages in 35 files represent the largest single release of classified UFO documents ever by the British government, the latest in a series of responses to Freedom of Information requests.

    “Whatever you think about UFOs, the release of these files shines a light on one of the most intriguing subjects ever studied by the British government,” said Pope on his website.

    Among the revelations:

    • Documents on the 1980 Rendlesham Forest incident have been destroyed, “even though other files from the surrounding years have survived.” Defence officials warned that letting the public know about the disappearance “could be interpreted to mean that a deliberate attempt had been made to eradicate the records.”

    The Rendlesham Forest incident involved U.S. Air Force soldiers reporting unexplained lights and aircraft over two or three days in the Suffolk forest near their base.

    • The Ministry of Defence “used its influence” to ridicule and divert a demand by Grenada President Eric Gairy in 1977 for a UN investigation of UFOs.

    • A CIA paper discusses the use of UFO reports for “psychological warfare.”

    • A ufologist demand for an answer about why unidentified aliens were allowed to visit “our solar system and our planet with impunity for uncivilized acts” was met with the boilerplate ministry response that they’re only interested in making sure U.K. airspace is safe.

    • UFO sightings fell from 609 in 1996-97 (the 50th anniversary of the reported UFO landing in Roswell, Nev.) to 130 per year between 2001 and 2006. “None had been determined as posting any risk to the integrity of U.K. airspace.”

    • Four police forces, bomb disposal units, the army and the ministry’s intelligence branch mobilized on Sept. 4, 1967 to investigate a potentially real “alien invasion” that turned out to be a hoax by engineering students from Farnborough Technical College.

    • One file, without elaboration, includes a colour photograph sent to the Ministry of Defence of a UFO alongside a Royal Air Force Lancaster bomber display in East Yorkshire in 2004.

    • During the Cold War, RAF aircraft “were scrambled on a daily basis to intercept Warsaw Pact aircraft approaching the U.K. coast.” There was no evidence, however, the eastern European aircraft were “anything other than man-made.”

    • A Londoner’s report he couldn’t account for an hour one October evening turned out to be the clocks changing to winter time.

    • A Ministry of Defence Secret: U.K. Eyes Only report in 2000 concluded UFOs posed no threat to the U.K. and Defence Intelligence could end their investigations.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/948009--britain-releases-its-real-life-x-files?bn=1

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