Most ignored scriptures by CHURCHianity...

by theMadJW 119 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  theMadJW

  PS- that's the easiest of all! Consider: have all these souls LITERALLY been living under some kind of Altar in Heaven for so many centuries?

  Revelation is a Symbolic Prophecy; remember why Christ told his disciples he used so many symbolic illustrations? Remember the opening words of Revelation? "he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" (vs 1) "Signified" in Old English, means to present in signs.

  It is a Vivid image of how so many righteous were Murdered and Slaughtered- and how and WHY God's Anger has been building- and will explode in Vengence!
• 

  elderelite

  So again, madjw, I ask you what you think about rev 19:1? I have a kingdom interliner translation and looked up the word used in chapter 7 and chapter 19. they are the same.. so how do you explain the great crowd being in heaven?
• 

  Essan

  "It can"

  Mad, thats all I wanted to hear. Ruach, Spirit, can indeed mean a disembodied spirit being, what Christians call a "soul"

  Your comment that "it doesn't" is just a matter of interpretation. Different interpretations are possible. That being so, I think it's better to go with an interpretation that actually makes sense rather than one which generates fake clone zombies created to replace the original which died long before.

  Reason demands continuity for the person, if the Bible's promises are to be believed. The soul doctrine satisfies reason because it provides continuity. The JW doctrine doesn't.
• 

  brotherdan

  MadJW, no Christian believes that the great crowd are the raptured church. Maybe you need to learn a bit more "churchianity" before you consider yourself an expert.

  Also, the palm branches mean they are on earth...hmm.....where do you get that one? Ohhhhh...wait...the Revelation climax book.

  Answer me this, what do the 7 trumpet blasts mean, MadJW? Could you please explain them to me? How are they conventions that the Bible students held in the early 20th century? Could you please logically explain that? Or are you afraid of sounding silly?
• 

  brotherdan

  MadJW - Revelation is a Symbolic Prophecy; remember why Christ told his disciples he used so many symbolic illustrations? Remember the opening words of Revelation? "he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John" (vs 1) "Signified" in Old English, means to present in signs.

  Actually you are VERY wrong in saying this MadJW. Lets look at "signified" not from Old English which means absolutely NOTHING in translation.

  The word that is translated "signify" or δε?ξαι or transliterated deixai CAN NOT be translated "present in signs and symbols" as the NWT holds. The greek word δε?ξαι is defined as "demonstrating" or "making clear". The WT likes to mistranslate this and applies it to mean that EVERYTHING was presented in symbols. This is a lie.

  We are not to view EVERYTHING in revelation as a symbol. And we can't arbitrarily decide what is symbolic and what is not. There are very clear hermeneutic rules to go by in order to understand what is to be viewed as symbolic and what is to be viewed as literal. To say that when Revelation says that 1/3 of the sea would be dried up, CANNOT mean that because of the Bible Students lame laughable tracts that came out in the 20's and 30's they helped to dry up 1/3 of the people of the world in Babylon the Great.

  But I'd like to hear what you have to say on the subject MadJW.

  How has the WT fulfulled the 7 trumpet blasts?
• 

  StAnn

  Re: Jesus starting the Catholic Church, here's a scripture that will help you to understand:

  http://www.chnetwork.org/articles/10verses_art.html

  5. Matthew 16:13-19
  Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesare’a Philip’pi, he asked his disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Eli’jah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.” He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

  There is so much to discuss in this verse, so much I never saw. I always knew that Catholics used this to argue Petrine authority but I wasn’t convinced. To the naively ignorant, the English words “Peter” and “rock” are so different that it’s obvious that Jesus was referring to the faith Simon Peter received as a gift from the Father. For the more informed seminary educated Bible students, like myself, I knew that behind the English was the Greek, where one discovered that Peter is the translation of petros, meaning little pebble, and rock is the translation of petra, large boulder. Again an obvious disconnect, so so for years I believed and taught specifically against Petrine authority. Then, through the reading of Karl Keating’s wonderful book, Catholicism and Fundamentalism, I realized the implications of something I knew all along: behind the Greek was the Aramaic which Jesus originally spoke, in which the word for Peter and rock are identical—kepha. Once I saw that Jesus had said essentially “You are kepha and on this kepha I will build my Church,” I knew I was in trouble.
• 

  brotherdan

  StAnn, you have a PM
• 

  theMadJW

  "So again, madjw, I ask you what you think about rev 19:1? I have a kingdom interliner translation and looked up the word used in chapter 7 and chapter 19. they are the same.. so how do you explain the great crowd being in heaven?"

  They aren't; they are BEFORE the throne, as those during the tribulation that tried to HIDE in caves- end of chapter 6.
• 

  theMadJW

  Very GOOD BD- something sensible- and correct for a change; I checked the greek- and you are correct- I was going by the word in the KJV...however, it still doesn't change the fact that it is a Symbolic Prophecy. Of COURSE, some things are literal in it- or it would make NO sense!
• 

  theMadJW

  Of all the religions I know of, the Catholic Church is the most bloodguilty of all- except maybe Judiasm, which killed prophets, and Christ himself!

  Even the radical Muslims are pansies compared to the Crusaders as far as cruelty and viciousness...and the priests with their torture techniques likely inspired Hitler! heh