Like we'll ever settle this once and for all, but here goes; ARE YOU A TRUE CHRISTIAN?

by nicolaou 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    The Watchtower says; "there is an enormous distinction between true Christianity and the religion practiced by those who are Christians in name only" - WT 1st October 2009

    Now, in the light of all the current controversy over the word 'atheist' and what it means can you see how irritating it is to have your frame of reference, be it a religious belief system or something else, redefined by others? And usually it is redefined by those who have something to gain by the linguistic manipulation.

    For the Watchtower the gain is easy to see but what about the attempt by many believers to define atheism as a belief system? Could it be that equating rational atheism with belief is nothing more than an attempt to legitimize faith?

    So many times I hear from believers that faith and reason are not incompatible but, conversely, how often do you hear atheists arguing that their world-view is consistent with a belief in the supernatural - almost never.

    Religion has nothing to offer a rational, skeptical atheist like me, atheism on the other hand has something the religious would love to have - credibility.

  • asilentone
    asilentone

    nope

  • aniron
    aniron

    Religion has nothing to offer a rational, skeptical atheist like me, atheism on the other hand has something the religious would love to have - credibility

    Credibiity in what?

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou
    Credibiity in what?

    Umm, in itself. Sorry your question has thrown me a little - care to expand?

  • nicolaou
  • nicolaou
  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    jumbo shrimp
    a just war
    honest politician
    boneless ribs
    cheerful pessimist

    and

    true Christian

    If you don't get it, they are oxymorons.

  • MarcusScriptus
    MarcusScriptus

    I can’t say that the desire for “credibility” is something I really desire or think about as a theist. My religious practice is not a scholastic exercise, it’s a relationship.

    It’s like when I got engaged, the only person who was seeking “credibility” was the girl I was dating. I don’t think anyone on the outside of that relationship was asking me for empirical evidence to prove the love I had for her. I don’t recall anyone who cared to raise such challenges, and I wouldn’t have been interested in answering them if they did come up. It’s a relationship. If you don’t believe I loved the girl, that didn’t affect the situation I was in.

    It’s not too different with God. If what I do and how I live is not evidence enough that I love this “God” I foolishly claim to believe in, so what? If I look like an idiot because I put trust in something you don’t, it’s no skin off my back. Besides, I can’t expect you to believe in what you can’t see or feel or touch.

    I’m not longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses who believes I have to challenge everyone else’s philosophies or ideologies or constantly be trying to convince you to adopt mine. If you’re not interested or don’t care, fine. I’m not bothered, really.

    Do I wish all people could enjoy the kind of relationship I have with what I believe is a Real Person? Sure, but I don’t expect it.

    I’ve seen people confronted with empirical evidence of things that were not supernatural. I saw a member of my family drink themselves to death and others smoke themselves to death because they didn’t want to believe in the medical data regarding their life choices. I’ve had close friends die of AIDS because they didn’t want to believe that their carelessness choices would ever turn them into a statistic. I even saw a relative beaten to death by his own sons because they were so wrapped up in drug abuse and the drug world. All these people had evidence beyond argument that they need to change their minds and their lives. There was nothing there they could not believe in. They just didn’t want to.

    So do I think people will change to accept my beliefs even I transfigured before them and was carried off into the heavens by angels? Yeah, right! Even if that happened before the whole world, there would still be people who would not believe it because humans are capable of refusing even the hardest of evidence.

    As someone once said: To those who believe no explanation is necessary; to those who do not believe no explanation is possible.

    You found something that fills your cup and refreshes you? Great. So have I. But I have nothing to prove. Who wants to believe in it even if I could?

    Again another wise voice pointed out that it is not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting; it is that it has been found difficult and left untried.

  • binadub
    binadub

    Hi nicolaou:

    I almost never post anymore, although I was a frequent poster on JWD's predecessor H2O. I infrequently check in on other sites these days and your topic happened to catch my interest. I hope you'll respond. You'll have to forgive me, I have forgotten some of the features of this program such as the quote, but you wrote:

    Religion has nothing to offer a rational, skeptical atheist like me, atheism on the other hand has something the religious would love to have - credibility.

    As I consider myself a somewhat studied Christian (i.e., not plunging into blind orthodox or evangelical blind faith but considering what I believe to be credible evidence for theism as well as Biblical Christianity), before I comment further on your ideology, may I ask for some further clarification on your comment as quoted above. In other words, what do you consider to be "credible" support for atheism.

    Respectfully,
    ~Binadub

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou
    what do you consider to be "credible" support for atheism?

    My atheism is a simple absence of belief but (sigh) I'm sure you take atheism to mean a belief in god's non-existence. Atheism really needs no support, it isn't positing anything. Do I need to provide 'support' for my absence of belief in pixies, goblins or faked moon landings? No. It's the idiots who assert those outrageous claims who need to proved 'support' for their position.

    Hmmm, I've been diverted.

    Binadub, you consider yourself "a somewhat studied Christian", would you say you are a 'true christian'? If so, would you accept that there are 'false christians'?

    How does anyone make that distinction anyway?

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