Like we'll ever settle this once and for all, but here goes; ARE YOU A TRUE CHRISTIAN?

by nicolaou 77 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • White Dove
    White Dove

    Me? Why, I'm no Christian at all! Couldn't stomach it any longer after leaving JW's.

  • bohm
    bohm

    DD:

    right. Lets go back. You say "You both use my world view (faith) to understand the universe."

    How do i use faith in my understanding of the universe?

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    bohm

    How do i use faith in my understanding of the universe?

    You assume things about people, natural laws, the universe... to be true, without having ALL the facts. We all do.

  • bohm
    bohm

    DD: All deductive reasoning is an excersize of faith, then?

  • bohm
    bohm

    .How to make an argument

    1. Make an inane, silly, sweeping comment: You both use my world view (faith) to understand the universe.
    2. When asked to clarify, do so in the most Zen-like way you can manage, preferable in a way that end up with an ill-defined question: "You live your life without certainty, you make assumptions. What else would you call acting without certainty?"
    3. When asked clarifying questions on the above Zen-wisdom, act confused and do NOT volentair any attempts at clarifying yourself.
    4. When asked more questions on clarifying yourself, go to step two and provide more muddy Zen-wisdom: "Knowing (100%) you have ALL the facts. Wouldn't "acting with certainty" be acting without faith?"Very important! Formulate your point as an open-ended question once more! YOU didnt bother to think your argument through in the first place, why do it now?
    5. When the other person is trying to make sence of what you wrote, try to apply logic to it, etc. - he is bound to fail because you never explained yourself in the first place. Just sit back and apply step 2 some more: muddy Zen-wisdom, confusion, and a smug: "oh, your not making sence!" attitude:"If you know you have 100% of the facts were would faith come in?"
    6. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, DONT ARSE YOURSELF INTO EXPLAINING YOURSELF!
    7. After playing this game for a while and the other party is asking you to explain yourself from the bottom, its time to the all-time rethorical trick: Winning by definition, make up a definition of a central word that encompass everybody and everything. Thall teach them not to mess with the man: "You assume things about people, natural laws, the universe... to be true, without having ALL the facts. We all do."
    8. !!!YOU WIN!!! absolutely nothing.
    9. When the opponent after full 2 seconds grasp the fact your entire argument rested on a definition of a word which encompass everyone and that make the entire thing a tautology noone can learn anything from, and he begin to poke at that, dont say anything. Hey, you won!
  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Bohm, breathe deeply buddy, I understand your frustration. On page 3 I addressed DD's question plainly and directly, he clearly didn't want to respond to my comments and so just set up an irrelevant diversion masquerading as a new question. Obfuscation, that's the name of this particular game.

    To DD: Man up and answer a straight question.

    Which statement comes closest to answering your question; "What else would you call acting without certainty?"

    [1] Acting with doubt.

    [2] Acting with faith.

    Remember, you yourself chose the Bible translation that equated faith with 'being sure' and 'certain'.

    Careful now,

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    bohm

    Make an inane, silly, sweeping comment...

    If you disagree with my comments that's fine, it a free world, I never promised you would agree (or understand).

    Are you offended because everyone uses some degree of faith to make sence of the universe? I'm sorry I can't make it clearer for you. What do you want from me? Is that idea to simple for you or what? After 15 hours of stewing all you can do is attack? Lighten up will you.

    When asked clarifying questions on the above Zen-wisdom, act confused and do NOT volentair any attempts at clarifying yourself.

    I'm sorry, I'm still confused... I guess, its no act. What do you want me to do? I'm beginning to think the only one "acting confused" is you.

    Unless you are 100% sure about how you see the universe, you're opperating with some degree of faith.

    Example

    Are you 100% sure the 4 fundamental forces of nature are going to be constant? They haven't always been. They could change. You assume, have faith, believe or expect that they will remain constant.

    !!!YOU WIN!!! absolutely nothing.

    What makes you think I'm trying to "win" anything?

    One last thing. If you want people to converse with you, try not talking down to to them, or insulting them.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Nic

    Sorry I missed your post. I think we posted about the same time.

    Remember, you yourself chose the Bible translation that equated faith with 'being sure' and 'certain'.

    NO. look again. Actually I chose God's Word (GW) translation. I don't care for the NIV

    Heb 11:1

    Faith assures us of things we expect and convinces us of the existence of things we cannot see.

    To DD: Man up and answer a straight question.

    I have no problem answering the question

    Acting with faith.

    Is this the sourse of your confusion? If so I'm sorry.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    Nic

    You quoted the NIV

    I responded to your quote of the NIV.

    I said:

    You won't see me quoting the NIV very often.
  • bohm
    bohm

    nic: It just seem to become an excersize in making up special definitions of words, then throw them into the face of other who are not aware of those special definitions, then act smug as they go WTF...

    DD: Which of the following constitute faith:

    • inductive reasoning
    • deductive reasoning

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