The EVOLUTION thread! (page 6)

VampireDCLXV

EVOLUTION IS A FACT, when it's still just a THEORY.

So is gravity. Just because you don't know how theories work doesn't mean they don't.

It's still not an end-all be-all...

Nowadays, there is an oppressive regime developing in the halls of academia.

Science and research always move forward with new ideas and new data.

That is the general idea, yes. But science is a man made thing, just like religion and just as corruptable. We're talking about mere mortals here. Scientists are not gods...

Any biologist who dares to question the holy tenets of evolution is promptly shouted down and stripped of his/her rank.

Patently untrue. However, if, say, a geologist decided the earth was flat and went around preaching in the face of evidence and proof, just like the biologist, his or her understanding of the subject matter would, of course, be called into question.

Have you actually looked into the stories? People are living in FEAR. They can't say what they want to because it will cost them dearly. To repeat; science is a man made thing. Men can be corrupted and so can science. It happens constantly...

V665

BurnTheShips

That is the general idea, yes. But science is a man made thing, just like religion and just as corruptable. We're talking about mere mortals here. Scientists are not gods...

Well, sure. But you could say the same about logic and mathematics, too. Science is a logical methodology. That's all it is. Science has a very cool feature: when something shows up that disproves an idea, the idea goes away!

Sure, scientists are corruptible people, just as anyone is. Additionally, there have been frauds in scientific history.

However, the scientific process eventually outs the frauds and cheaters. Experiments and observations must be reproducible, or else they are not valid.

A mathematician can be a total cheat, but if his equations don't add up, they don't add up!

It's still not an end-all be-all...

What does this mean?

BTS

notverylikely

It's still not an end-all be-all...

Again, no one ever said it was.That does not disprove the theory, however.

But science is a man made thing, just like religion and just as corruptable.

People are. Science is designed, and has so far proven, to be self correcting over time. However, that doesn't disprove the theory of evolution.

People are living in FEAR. They can't say what they want to because it will cost them dearly.

Yes. I have. If they have a theory that fits the observable data that's great. They can publish it, put it up for peer review and defend it just like everyone else has to. If it works, it will move forward, if not, their idea, like many others, will be tossed. If they are afraid of that then they are in the wrong field.

VampireDCLXV

It's still not an end-all be-all...

What does this mean?

What I mean is that evolution is being held up on a pedestal (by many) like religion formerly was. Some people are putting too much "unquestioning" FAITH in it. It's like evolution is becoming a religion in of itself (even if it was not intended to be). Perhaps it is the best explanation we have, for now. I fear that people are not being allowed to ask questions anymore. This I find rather unnerving...

V665

notverylikely

I fear that people are not being allowed to ask questions anymore.

That's the very foundation of science and knowledge moving forward. Who do you think is not allowed to ask questions?

BurnTheShips

What I mean is that evolution is being held up on a pedestal (by many) like religion formerly was.

I suspect the reason for this is because fundamentalist religious people constantly attack it. It is a defense mechanism. It generates push back. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Fanaticism breeds fanaticism. Look, no one goes after "round Earth" or having the Sun at the center of the Solar System anymore. You don't see radical Heliocentrists going around to college campuses preaching the virtues of Copernicus, Brahe, or Galileo, do you? Where is the Heliocentrist Dawkins to be found these days? However, since Evolution threatens particular interpretations of the Bible, it gets treated differently by many people who take issue with it.

BTS

HintOfLime

SBC, what I don't like about evolution being proclaimed a "fact" is that it's like evolution is being held up as an end-all be-all. I don't like how those who question it are constantly belittled and worse. I don't like how people get shouted down when they don't uphold evolution as an absolute. Just sayin'...

I was just watching a documentery last night (100 Top Discoveries, by Bill Nye.. the Science Episode), and he was discussing the discovery of the Periodic Table of Elements. It wasn't enough that Dmitri Mendeleev put the elements into a table or tried to order them - that idea didn't revolutionize anything, and in fact, other scientists had quietly made their own tables, many very close to what Dmitri did.

What Dmitri Mendeleev did that made his theory valuable, however - was to make a prediction regarding the nature of 3 elements that had not yet been discovered. When those predictions turned out to be a factual reality - only then did his work on the periodic table get notice.

That's the part most non-scientists don't get - Evolution is not an opinion. By means of the theory of evolution, predictions have been made (such as the prediction that cellular life must have a means of transmitting information from one generation to the next - well before gene theory or DNA were discovered. Also if humans and apes have the same ancestor, then in Human DNA we should find a point where two chromosomes merged, to explain our different chromosome counts - also predicted before it's discovery. There are dozens of examples where Evolution predicts something, and that indeed is the case.)

Opinions and "it's only a theory" just don't mean anything when you understand that it makes valid and useful predictions - it's pretty well been vindicated. It's made non-intuitive predictions, and those predictions have turned out to be factual reality. When one can acurately predict something - then one truely understand it... and that is what Science is all about - understanding the universe as it really is.

People, of course, are free to their opinons - but when those same people are voting, starting wars, indoctrinating children, and actively seeking to poison science education in classrooms... I think it is worth pissing off a few forum posters and getting the word out that there are better explainations than 'goddidit'.

- Lime

VampireDCLXV

I suspect the reason for this is because fundamentalist religious people constantly attack it. It is a defense mechanism. It generates push back. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Fanaticism breeds fanaticism.

It doesn't mean that I or anyone else has to like it. Extremism is still a form of oppression, no matter which side it comes from. Science is not the tower of purity so many people treat it as. It's an unruly child that needs to be constantly supervised or it descends into madness and takes us all down with it.

As Voltaire said: " I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." I hope you all respect my right to say what I believe in as I do yours...

V665

BurnTheShips

I certainly agree with your right to express your opinion. That is why I am interested in your response to a couple of questions I posed upthread.

BTS

The EVOLUTION thread!

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