TRINITY Challenge for JW's, Unitarians and Anyone Else

by UnDisfellowshipped 457 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • TD


    Greg Stafford is the author of Jehovah's Witnesses Defended An Answer to Scholars and Critics.

    Robert Bowman Jr. is an Evangelical theologian currently affliated with the Institute for Religious Research

    They have publicly debated the Trinity doctrine on multiple occasions. Both men are very, very good with their respective positions. The transcripts are probably available online somewhere.

    On uppercase vs. lowercase "G"

    It's not actually a problem of two different opinions, it's a problem of two different sets of rules.

    In theology, you capitalize the 'G' when it refers to the Supreme Being. You can clearly see this rule at work in the NWT:

    "...and the word was with God and the word was a god"

    In grammar, you capitalize the 'G' for other reasons as well, like when the word "god" starts a sentence or when it is used as a formal title:

    "See I have made you God to Pharoah..."

    Taken together, the two rules can work at cross-purposes on this particular subject. I'm not the world's best communicator, but what I was actually proposing was that people not limp between the two rules.

  • Podobear

    @ peacedog: You promised to give me a considered reply to Psalm 110:1; Who are the two Lords? This has now developed to a request to understand the meaning of Revelation 3:7-13; especially verse 12 where the resurrected, exalted Jesus still refers to his Father and his God.. how then, can Jesus and Jehovah be one and the same? Please enlighten me.. or is the request really so simple no one can answer?

    Jesus is NOT Jehovah.. they are two separate beings, one is Almighty and the other is Mighty, exalted, and resurrected and has been give the gift of immortality. Prove otherwise please.


  • BANE

    Nope LeavingWT...That is EXACTLY what they believe...

    It´s a CATHOLIC forum. Therefore it IS what catholics teach. To not know what the teach by you is poor don´t cha think?

  • Titus

    BANE, have you seen a video?

  • leavingwt


    That is EXACTLY what they believe

    If a Catholic personally refutes this, will you still believe as you currently believe?

  • leavingwt

    From the official WT website:

    If the Trinity is true, it is degrading to Jesus to say that he was never equal to God as part of a Godhead.

    The statement above clearly reveals that the author does not understand the doctrine of the Trinity. The entire series of articles about the Trinity on the WT website is quite entertaining and I highly recommend it.

  • leavingwt

    Here is another specific example of WT arguing against a strawman of the Trinity:

    Live Forever Book, page 39:

    "Since Jesus prayed to God, asking that God's will, not his, be done, the two could not be the same person."

    The Trinity doctrine does not teach that Jesus is the same person as the Father. Why does the Watchtower create a false definition of the Trinity?

  • designs

    The Trinity Brochure should have been written to Modalists (Pentecostals, Assembly of God) how do you spell Oooops.

  • truthlover

    Just a thought -- Jude was Jesus' half brother, also a brother of James - living, eating, sleeping, listening to Jesus' wisdom ....yet neither one indicated that God and Jesus were one - they were slaves of Jesus and gave proper respect to God, not indicating they were the same.. so if they didnt know it, how do we?

    There are so many scriptures disputing the issue of the trinity, it doesnt make sense that the Bible writers were under a dark cloud of misunderstanding about the subject..

    there is a captain of a ship i.e. YhWh, Jehovah, God who said "there is no God but me" and Jesus, God's next in command (remember Christ is the head of man scripture -- all things in harmony???) who perfects all things and hands it back to God His Father... as he so often called Yhwh,Jehovah... you cant hand something back to yourself, can you?

    And.. out of the Living Bible pg 865- Acts 3:13 Peter expressly says" For it is the God of Abraham,( who is YHWH) Isaac,Jacob and of all out ancestors who has brought glory to his servant, killed the author of Life but God brought him back to life again, and John and I are witnesses of this fact. So did God resurrect himself??

    To say we can't or don't understand the spiritual realm is one thing, but this seems fairly clear -

    Another question, do all those who come to know Christ belong to the "trinity"(for those who believe same)? Wouldn't that make the word trinity of no account? There would be God, Jesus, holy spirit, people,people,people... remember, for those who are not of the RC faith - this belief began with the church, way back about 300 AD--- who claimed to be inspired of God and still do today.. who is right and who is wrong..according to scripture? Walking a fine line - I choose to believe there is God - head of all, Jesus, his son and the spirit who gets things done--

  • BANE

    LeavingWT, YES that is exactly what they teach. AS I just proved with that website. Are you dense or what?

    Here is ANOTHER Catholic website... Moron.

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