The next dub that says "the light's getting brighter" to me...

by undercover 88 Replies latest jw friends

  • finallysomepride

    that light is actually a train, keep him standing on the tracks

  • chickpea
  • yknot


    Posters do want to like and welcome into the more polite side of our forum....

    You just make it very hard by all the phony pretenses you put up....

  • Mary

    AIW said: The Bible has application to each and every person as an individual. You didn't say anything in response to post 406 as the scriptures I cited have direct application to anyone who loyally subjects themselves to Jehovah, not just the "faithful and discreet slave."

    You may want to run your theory by the Writing Department because the WTS most certainly does not teach that the bible is for any 'individual person'. In fact, they stress just the opposite:

    "No question about it. We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the faithful and discreet slave' organization." Watchtower 2/15/81

    "Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road to life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." Watchtower 12/1/1981, p.27

    "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible. For this reason the Bible cannot be properly understood without Jehovah's visible organization in mind."---October 1, 1967 Watchtower p. 587 par. 9

    "Also, it is to the spirit-anointed Christians who will rule in that kingdom that most of the Christian Greek Scriptures is directed, including the promises of everlasting life."----- Watchtower 1974 June 15 p.376

    United in Worship p.111
    "Special attention was being given to making up the government that would rule mankind for 1,000 years, and nearly all the inspired letters in the Christian Greek Scriptures are primarily directed to this group of Kingdom heirs - "the holy ones," "partakers of the heavenly calling."

    Why wouldn't Proverbs 4:18 not relate directly to God's organization if it relates to people as individuals?

    Because there's nothing in that scripture that even hints that it applies to any "organization". It is simply talking about the path a person takes in life and the eventual outcome, end of story. It has nothing to do with the Watchtower Society, or the price of tea in China.

  • M*A*S*H

    Hey, alice... I think you're great. There aren't many people that can copy and paste other peoples thoughts/work as well as you. I mean the way you pasted all that crud from was truely awesome! Because that's what people come to this forum for, to read lot's of rubbish someone has dumped in a post and passed off as their own.

    You go girl!

  • Twitch
    the phony pretenses you put up....

    = Fear

  • Twitch

    I recall a rather nasty "verbal disagreement" I had with the dub parents about 15 years ago where the subject of 1914 and the generation thing came up. I told them that if they and the org were right, then there will be no change to the doctrine and the end will indeed come fairly soon. If not, then they'll have to change the "understanding" and spin the story to suit their failed prophecy. I told them to let me know when that happens.

    lol. eh, whatever.


    Mary do you even know what the Bible's definition of a false prophet is? You claim Jehovah's Witnesses twist the scriptures or tailor their interpretation for selfish motives. In the context of this discussion, "to cover-up the failure of a certain prophecy." How do you interpret the Bible's definition of a false prophet?

    The Tree and Its Fruit

    “Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions. Matthew 7:15-20

    The interpretation of certain scriptures led to the Hellfire doctrine. This eventually led to corrupt medieval churches justifying torture as a means to extort confessions of "guilt" for spiritual transgressions. I posted some information on this sometime back:

    Christians and Instruments of Torture

    If and when the faithful and discreet slave errs, they openly admit it unlike false prophets.

    Pope John Paul II said in 1999: "Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy." As to the images of hell as a fiery place, he said: "They show the complete frustration and emptiness of life without God." Had the pope described hell in terms of "flames and a red-suited devil with a pitchfork," church historian Martin Marty said, "people wouldn't take it seriously."

    The fires of Hell are real and eternal, Pope warns

    Hell is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, the Pope has said.

    Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, Benedict XVI said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to “admit blame and promise to sin no more”, they risked “eternal damnation — the Inferno”.

    As clearly noted, false prophets change doctrines at the drop of a hat with little next to nothing to back their positions and do not learn from mistakes unlike genuine Christians.

    w84 2/15 pp. 23-24 Always Ready for the End

    The year 1925 also held expectations for Jehovah’s servants. It was thought that a cycle of 70 typical Jubilees (70 × 50 years) from the time Israel entered the Promised Land would end in 1925 and mark the beginning of the great antitypical Jubilee, the Millennial Reign of Christ Jesus. It did not turn out that way.

    However, our family came to appreciate that unrealized hopes are not unique to our day. The apostles themselves had similar misplaced expectations. They envisioned the resurrected Jesus Christ as restoring the nation of Israel to its former glory as Jehovah’s chosen people under theocratic rule, breaking the viselike domination of the Romans. They asked Jesus: “Lord, are you restoring the kingdom to Israel at this time?” He answered, “It does not belong to you to get knowledge of the times or seasons which the Father has placed in his own jurisdiction.” (Acts 1:6, 7) That same basic point has applied to the ‘faithful slave class’ today. There is an alertness, a searching to know God’s purpose, at times even an overeagerness to see the end of the world’s wicked system—but the exact timing of events is in Jehovah’s jurisdiction.—Matthew 24:34-36, 45-47.

    w68 8/15 p. 494 Why Are You Looking Forward to 1975?

    WHAT about all this talk concerning the year 1975? Lively discussions, some based on speculation, have burst into flame during recent months among serious students of the Bible. Their interest has been kindled by the belief that 1975 will mark the end of 6,000 years of human history since Adam’s creation. The nearness of such an important date indeed fires the imagination and presents unlimited possibilities for discussion.

    But wait! How do we know their calculations are correct? What basis is there for saying Adam was created nearly 5,993 years ago? Does the one Book that can be implicitly trusted for its truthful historical accuracy, namely, the Inspired Word of Jehovah, the Holy Bible, give support and credence to such a conclusion?

    One thing is absolutely certain, Bible chronology reinforced with fulfilled Bible prophecy shows that six thousand years of man’s existence will soon be up, yes, within this generation! (Matt. 24:34) This is, therefore, no time to be indifferent and complacent. This is not the time to be toying with the words of Jesus that “concerning that day and hour nobody knows, neither the angels of the heavens nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Matt. 24:36) To the contrary, it is a time when one should be keenly aware that the end of this system of things is rapidly coming to its violent end. Make no mistake, it is sufficient that the Father himself knows both the “day and hour”!

  • jookbeard

    Alice; the Bibles definition of a false prophet? that C&P exert just answered it , it fits The WTS so perfectly LOL

  • Mary
    AIW asked yet again: Mary do you even know what the Bible's definition of a false prophet is?

    Yes I do Alice as I and others have already shown you on various other threads. However, since you refused to acknowledge what we wrote, let me help you:

    How does the bible describe what constitutes a "false prophet"? It is described here:

    "...However, the prophet who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded him to speak or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet must die. And in case you should say in your heart: "How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?" when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him."---Deuteronomy 18:20-22

    It's really quite simple: If someone predicts an event and claims that they are speaking for God, either the event will come true (proving that they are a true prophet), or it will not come true (proving that they are a false prophet), end of story. There is no allowance in the scriptures for anything else, no matter how well meaning someone may be.

    Yet this is exactly what the Watchtower Society has tried to do. While admitting that they have "made mistakes" regarding future events, they gloss over what turned out to be "false predictions" by claiming ‘well, we've never lost faith or ceased to be watchful'----as though that some how excuses them for "speaking presumptuously". This concept is completely foreign in the scriptures as Jehovah has never said: "well, as long as you don't lose faith, I'll overlook your false prophesying". No, it simply says that if a prediction does not come true, then whoever predicted it constitutes a "false prophet."

    To try and further distance themselves from the accusations, the Reasoning book further tries to justify the Organization by saying:

    "......Matters on which corrections of viewpoint have been needed have been relatively minor when compared with the vital Bible truths that they have discerned and publicized.......Jehovah's Witnesses do not claim to be inspired prophets. They have made mistakes. Like the apostles of Jesus Christ, they have at times had some wrong expectations.-Luke 19:11; Acts 1:6.

    "...There are some who make spectacular predictions of the world's end to grab attention and a following, but others are sincerely convinced that their proclamations are true. They are voicing expectations based on their own interpretation of some scripture text or physical event. They do not claim that their predictions are direct revelations from Jehovah and that in this sense they are prophesying in Jehovah's name. Hence, in such cases, when their words do not come true, they should not be viewed as false prophets such as those warned against at Deuteronomy 18:20-22. In their human fallibility, they misinterpreted matters."

    Amazing. When they print their prophecies, they're God's 'sole channel of communication' but when their ridiculous prophecies don't come true, it's blamed on their "human fallibility." There is nothing in the scriptures that indicates that Jehovah would excuse someone for false prophesying because their intensions were good. And while the apostles were indeed expecting The End to come in there day, they most certainly never predicted any specific date and they certainly never enforced their views on the congregations, threatening to disfellowship someone for not accepting their views lock, stock and barrel. Does "sincerity" alone count as the Organization tries to claim in justification for their numerous false predictions? Not according to their own publications:

    "No matter how sincere a person may be, presumptuousness and disobedience never win God's favor."---December 15, 1983 Watchtower page 6

    "Hence, the courageous course is being adopted not in sincerity alone, but on the basis of reliable information, correct knowledge. And this under trustworthy guidance, better than the guidance of "valueless gods." The correctness of the course is proved by the fact that it was foretold in a prophecy that has turned out to be no lie but the truth."----WatchtowerDecember 15, 1972 p. 742 par. 5

    "...In the all-important matter of worshiping God, it is likewise true that sincerity alone does not guarantee that God is pleased with our worship. We may conscientiously believe we are doing well in this regard, yet we may be deluding ourselves."----- Watchtower January 1, 1964 p. 4

    "Since the Bible was completed and "inspiration" is no longer necessary, a true prophet is one who is faithfully proclaiming what is written in the Bible.......It matters not whether he proclaims his message with deliberate, willful and malicious intent to deceive, or whether he is the blinded and deluded dupe of Satan and hence unwittingly used of him. In either case, he is a false prophet and hence the agent of Satan".---- The Watchtower May 15, 1930, p 154

    "...Merely sincerely accepting and following a religious organization will not guarantee God's approval and protection through this world's end. Sincerity, conviction, or intensity of devotion will not change falsehood into truth..."---- Watchtower October 15, 1960 pp. 614-615

    "...sincerity alone does not purify someone of wrong teachings..."---- Awake! February 2006 p. 13

    "For our worship to be acceptable to God, sincerity is not only desirable but also essential. Yet, note that sincerity alone is not enough. It must be complemented with truth........For us to be acceptable to God, our sincere beliefs must be based on accurate information."----Watchtower February 1, 2003 p. 32

    "The man who wants to please God must be sincere. But sincerity alone does not make one's religion approved in God's eyes."----Watchtower March 15, 1969 p. 166

    "A religion that teaches lies cannot be true."---Watchtower 1991 December 1, p.7

    So once again they hang themselves up by their own petard. They fit the biblical definition of what a False Prophet is, and no amount of bleating, whining or mouthing excuses changes it. Give it a rest Alice. You don't have a leg to stand on.

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