by StoneWall 347 Replies latest watchtower bible
How can you be so certain? Perhaps the Old Testament is an inspired and accurate record of God and how he dealt with his people.
The New Testament could be a hoax and Jesus an invention of cunning scribes.
Gladiator, do you mind if I answer that question too?
I don't have anything earthshattering to add, mind you - I just really, really want to answer:)
*frantically waving her hand in the air*
Tammy
Tammy, you can answer any question you want.
I don't own the question, I just threw it in the ring.
Tammy, you can answer any question you want.
I don't own the question, I just threw it in the ring.
Sorry, that was silly of me. I'm on three hours of sleep and a couple of teas, which for me, puts me in a giddy mood.
Okay:
If Jesus is a hoax, then I am not one of God's people anyway. Salvation would only be for the jews living under the law. I would personally have nothing to fear except returning to dust when I die. I'm not going to go to hell, I'm not going to go to heaven, I'm just a dog who will die with no hope of anything more than this life.
I would have to convert to Judaism to be 'saved' if that were true. I would have to deny Jesus to convert to Judaism. But I'll follow Jesus (whatever version of him is real) to the grave before I do this.
Tammy
Hi Tammy
Here in the UK we are 8 hours ahead. Allowing for that I have noticed some of your posts are after midnight followed by early morning. You mustn't neglect your beauty sleep.
An interesting answer. I guess, at the end of the day, we all follow what we feel we have to.
I would have to convert to Judaism to be 'saved' if that were true. I would have to deny Jesus to convert to Judaism. But I'll follow Jesus (whatever version of him is real) to the grave before I do this.
Noone likes the Jews.
Noone likes the Jews.
Dude...
The question I have about this passage is in regard to how the word (so¯te¯r) for savior is used. If you insist on using it in the spiritual/eternal way, then the universalist have a case. But, since you don't claim to be a universalist, I would think we would agree on this passage. I don't see how this passage applies to our debate. . If you have a problem with how a word is used (as I have a problem with how the word 'hell' is used) then it seems that you are open to the idea that there could be errors due to man's translation? . This passage applies to our debate because you claim that God made certain that some people can not come to him. That He does not invite everyone through Jesus. But this passage and others apply to believers - and - the world. . There is a difference between everyone being able to come to God, and actually coming to God. Just because the invitation is there does not mean that everyone will accept it. God knowing some will not accept is not the same as God making sure that some will not accept. He wants the wicked to turn from their ways. Why want something that He, himself, has made impossible? . No matter what side of the debate you're on, I think we all agree that God saves ALL men that are saved. They don't save themselves! . Since faith in Jesus saves them, and God sent us Jesus, then God saves them, yes. . As for the rest who do not have faith in Jesus, some do not have a fair shot at coming to know Jesus, I believe God judges the heart - because love is the most important thing - even over faith, which Paul said himself. And it is not those who hear the word of God that are righteous, but it is those who obey the word of God who will be declared righteous. . If you have the freedom to love differently, why would you not expect that God would have at least that same freedom? That's why I keep pointing out that God loves his children more than the common love he has for all mankind. If you keep that in mind when you read Romans 9 it takes on a differrent tone. We, the Bride of Christ (Gentil and Jew) mean more to him, and are adopted into the family of God. . Of course God has the same freedom. But you didn't ask if I thought God could love some more than others, before. You asked about God hating others. I know that someone posted information about loving Jacob, hating Esau as meaning loving Jacob more than Esau. The word just did not translate into English better than love/hate. . So however God views emotion is not my place (or ability) to say. But I for one cannot think that God loves me more than someone else. In fact, if I am having a debate/argument with someone, I often stop and say to myself: 'God cares about this person's salvation every bit as much as He cares about mine.' . It keeps me humble. . Tammy
Noone likes the Jews.
I meant that I would follow Jesus to the grave before I deny Him.
It has nothing to do with liking or disliking jews.
I love them as I love everyone.
Tammy
It has nothing to do with liking or disliking jews.
Wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more, say no more.
Here in the UK we are 8 hours ahead. Allowing for that I have noticed some of your posts are after midnight followed by early morning. You mustn't neglect your beauty sleep.
Late night is my quiet time. Everyone else is in bed. I have to get up early in the morning to get the kids to school. I'm also a writer, even though I haven't done much of anything lately, so I'm used to late nights and early mornings when passion for a topic consumes me.
I'll crash after a week or two and go to bed a nine for a week or two. (Or when I notice the beauty waning )
Thanks, though.
Tammy
