Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus? (page 31)

THE GLADIATOR

I have tried to stand back from this debate but must now feel moved to ask a few relevant questions. It could be a powerful spirit working through me or just my normal brain functioning.

God's indiscriminate Hate of people is all well and good for the OT Hebrews that viewed God that way, through Jesus we found that God is NOT that way.

How can you be so certain? Perhaps the Old Testament is an inspired and accurate record of God and how he dealt with his people.

The New Testament could be a hoax and Jesus an invention of cunning scribes. After all , the new testament has been embellished and altered much more. I know you prefer to think of a God of love but he could as easily be a God of revenge.

You accept that Jesus' words have been accurately reported, yet dismiss many other Scriptural witness accounts as opinion. You also dismiss many of Paul's inspired words. Even Paul quotes from the Old Testament which he believed describes God accurately: Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay," says the Lord. Romans 12:19

I still find it difficult to fathom out how you pick and choose Scripture that support how you imagine a God should be, while discounting Scriptures that portray him in an unfavourable light; otherwise known as darkness.

Please don't ask me for examples. I wonder if you ever read back through the comments you have made. Why not read back through the many posts you have made on this thread and see how many contradictions you have made.

It is precisely this duplicity that discredits your claim to have a personal relationship with Jesus or God. I'm still not sure whether they are the same person. Or one is the God of the Old Testament and the other a new friendlier God that has taken over. I am not sure you really know yourself.

Since posting my comments I have read the sensible and well thought out post by leavingwtWell Done) It is saying much the same as me but more eloquently put.

leavingwt

Gladiator -- Please be nice. We're all learning.

PSacramento

LWT,

In regards to your post about "liberal christians not being christians".

I've heard it all before, very "Jw" of them, don't you think?

PSacramento

Gladiator,

I know you have issues on how I, according to you, "pick n choose" things from the bible and I respect that.

Fact is I don't discount scripture that portrays God in an "unfavorable light", what I try to do is understand it.

We've discussed this before and I repeat myself again, I do NOT take the all of the bible literally, it was NOT meant to be take as such.

You view some of my posts as contridictions, fine, that is your opinion and I respect that.

Please show me where you think I have contridicted myself and I will try to clear that up and if I HAVE contridicted myself then the least I can do is apologise for not being clear in what I was trying to say.

leavingwt

I've heard it all before, very "Jw" of them, don't you think?

Well, the JWs are Fundamentalists. The actually believe that a literal reading of the Bible supports their theology. So do the rest of the Fundamentalist groups, and their doctrines conflict. So, you and I 'know' that what we're really dealing with is "unique interpretation of Scripture". This is what all faiths are based upon. Those within Fundamentalist faiths will reject this, because they do not see it. For, if they did, they would no longer be Fundamentalists.

THE GLADIATOR

Nice try PSacramento but you have not addressed my question.

How can you be so certain? Perhaps the Old Testament is an inspired and accurate record of God and how he dealt with his people.

The New Testament could be a hoax and Jesus an invention of cunning scribes.

superpunk

I still find it difficult to fathom out how you pick and choose Scripture that support how you imagine a God should be, while discounting Scriptures that portray him in an unfavourable light; otherwise known as darkness.

I think of it like an If/Then checklist with liberal Christians.

Read a passage about God...

Do I like it? If Yes, then God! - If No, Not God, then it's just writers perhaps mistaken idea of God... try to find purpose in passage anyhow.

Read passage about what God does...

Does it make sense/can it be supported by facts?

If yes, then God hooray! In no, then not God...allegory or legend.

etc.

leavingwt

I think of it like an If/Then checklist with liberal Christians.

As contrary or odd as this may sound, I have more respect for this view of Scripture than the Fundamentalist view. Sure, it's unpredictable, arbitrary and impossible to define. However, these Christians use their brains/logic/reason to reject many things that would harmful and/or hateful.

superpunk

Sure, it's unpredictable, arbitrary and impossible to define. However, these Christians use their brains/logic/reason to reject many things that would harmful and/or hateful.

The only problem with it is that is a system of beliefs that are completely supported by themselves, rather than any empirical data or verified sources.

The liberals view of the bible and which parts they are going to pick out starts with the assumption that God is totally awesome and nice and loving and friendly and all that - when, as Gladiator pointed out, the complete opposite could very well also be true. He could be absolutely awful. Either view of God is similarly "supported", in that neither is "supported" at all, they are just assumptions.

And then everything else is built on top of that assumption - which is a rather poor foundation.

So I'm not sure which I have more respect for. Liberal Christians do not appear insane, like fundies - but they do appear intellectually dishonest.

leavingwt

So I'm not sure which I have more respect for. Liberal Christians do not appear insane, like fundies - but they do appear intellectually dishonest.

As long as they're non-violent and promote tolerance of non-violent lifestyles, I'm fine with the intellectual dishonesty. Don't we all create (what I like to call) comfortable delusions for ourselves in order to get through life? Some are superior to others, IMHO.

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

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