Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus? (page 19)

tec

Maeve - I know that was for Gladiator, but... thank you! That was a breath of fresh air! Christian Freedom. I think that's one of the reasons I'm not feeling good about this thread. Living according to what this scripture or that scripture might mean is confining. Arguing what each scripture might mean is counterproductive and damaging - at least for me.

But living according to the freedom and the grace and the faith and the love that Jesus and the apostles taught - that is freeing.

I feel so much better now.

Thank you.

And you have a PM. (or you're about to, as soon as I finish this)

Tammy

PSacramento

Ok, What did Jesus say?

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

You will notice NO talk of preordination, NO talk of "following the bible literally", NO talk of house-to-house", NO talk of being part of an "organization", you don't even see talk of being a Christian or a follower of Jesus do you?

Now, Jesus does mention "brothers of mine", but he also mentions Being a "stranger".

The word brothers is "adelpho" and means:

1) a brother, whether born of the same two parents or only of the same father or mother

2) having the same national ancestor, belonging to the same people, or countryman

3) any fellow or man

4) a fellow believer, united to another by the bond of affection

5) an associate in employment or office

6) brethren in Christ

a) his brothers by blood

b) all men

c) apostles

d) Christians, as those who are exalted to the same heavenly place

tec

Exjdub -

Thank you for listening and respecting my view - as well as the views of other Christians on this board - even if you don't agree. I think it shows something about the fairness/openness of your character that you are still willing to see the good in Christians, despite the hypocrisy that you have seen these past few years.

I think most Christians do not claim to be perfect; they do in fact claim to be flawed, and are grateful for God's grace and faith in Jesus to cover those flaws. I think we run into trouble and hypocrisy when that acceptance of grace is used as a license (a sort of get out of jail free card) to continue to disobey and do bad.

Tammy

tec

All the nations will be gathered before him...

Just wanted to point that out, according to what PSac posted above.

Great post, PSac.

The fact that Jesus mentions stranger with brother of his is telling, I think.

Tammy

THE GLADIATOR

tec

PSacramento

not a captive

Thank you for your comments and your efforts to help me see the error of my ways. You are decent people who try to share what you believe with each other and been kind enough to share it with me. To me truth is not negotiable; it has to be consistent.

It makes no real difference to me what you believe, or what you base it on. If it helps you enjoy your lives I wish you well. I think it best that I leave you debate amongst yourselves for a while and come to the conclusions that you want to. I would not want to be the cause of you losing something that you value.

I am making the same journey through life as you are but am walking a different path.

PSacramento

Gladiator, for what itis worth, I see no error in your ways, you question, and that is quite correct to do.

You said that "truth is not negotiable", indeed, Pilot asked Jesus "what is truth?" and what did Jesus reply?

PSacramento

One more thing:

The Narrow Door

22 Then Jesus went through the towns and villages, teaching as he made his way to Jerusalem. 23 Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

He said to them, 24 “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. 25 Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

26 “Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

27 “But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

28 “There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. 29 People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. 30 Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

superpunk

Living according to what this scripture or that scripture might mean is confining. Arguing what each scripture might mean is counterproductive and damaging - at least for me.

But living according to the freedom and the grace and the faith and the love that Jesus and the apostles taught (which we find only in the scriptures) - that is freeing.

I always find it odd when believers try to divorce Jesus or faith from scripture or religion.

tec

I would not want to be the cause of you losing something that you value. Gladiator

You couldn't be the cause of that. You respect other people's beliefs and you state what your own are. I respect that also. Your path is yours to walk, and I appreciate your taking the time to listen to something about ours. So I don't think you should worry, and I enjoy exchanging thoughts with you immensely.

I was far more troubled by DD, than anything you asked or said.

(I know you care, DD, but I do not like arguing over debatable matters. I think it is counter-productive to Christian unity and love. I can certainly discuss and respect what you and others believe, even though that might differ from my own beliefs. But how can you know that what is in my heart is not there because the Spirit has put it there? I have to be true to my heart and conscience.)

Tammy

tec

Superpunk - did you read what I said earlier, about starting with scripture to lead us to Christ, and keeping it as a guide and reminder, but then growing to put our faith directly into the Spirit of Christ and God?

Tammy

Why do all intelligent Christians disobey Jesus?

Share this