All this fighting is worthless

by Danni 85 Replies latest jw friends

siegswife

Yoyo said that this is one of the scriptures applies to disfellowshipped people:
8 Look out for yourselves, that YOU do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that YOU may obtain a full reward. 9 Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to YOU and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into YOUR homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.
Yo Yo...look at this quote. What are 'the things we have worked hard to produce' and the 'full reward' being spoken of here? Since the Bible was only written for 'the annointed', it would be the things that they need to produce to receive the full reward of their heavenly hope, wouldn't it? Are you, or the majority of JW's of this class?
Some were 'pushing ahead' and 'not remaining' in the teachings of Christ, however. They 'don't have God', according to this scripture. Since the Bible is only written for 'the annointed', doesn't this mean the teachings that Christ died for them so that they could partake of the 'heavenly hope'?
Where in the Greek Scriptures do the apostles teach anything specifically to the people who will live on earth? Is this what was being taught? What teachings in the Greek Scriptures are for the purpose of these people producing things that will help them to realize that reward in full? They aren't even being spoken to or about in the Greek Scriptures, are they?
Would you say that anyone that came to your home teaching something that isn't in the Greek Scriptures wouldn't be bringing the teachings spoken about? Since the Bible is only written for 'the annointed', how can someone teach something that isn't for the annointed, leading to the reward of 'the annointed', and still be teaching what is in the Bible? If it is only for 'the annointed', then anything that applies to someone who isn't the annointed wouldn't be a part of 'this teaching'.
Who pushes ahead of the teachings in the Bible? People who come to your home with teachings that aren't for the annointed, that's who. Who does that? Jehovah's Wittnesses.
Englishman

Danni,
Of course I will give you a hard time when you criticise posters that I have come to respect and admire.
You wouldn't stroll into a new pub, walk up to a bunch of friends, single one out for criticism and expect all his pals to stand around quietly whilst you berate him, would you? If you did such a thing all his friends would protest loudly.
That's what you are seeing here, it's just normal loyalty to someone who has earned it for himself. So that's why I gave you an earful.
Englishman.
Bring on the dancing girls!
barry

Danni,
To put some things in perspective look for some sites on the internet and see how other churches fair. See if other churches shun family members or disfellowship for disagreement with doctrinal positions. Or see if there is sites like this where so many people come to vent there anger, there has to be a reason for it, people dont do this for no reason at all.
Barry
Im not a JW I just studied with them and the person I studied shunned her daughter.
YoYoMama

Dave:
I want to apologize for calling you Randy, I don't were I got that from. I also did not mean to to poke into your family problems. I only have a problem with blaming everything on the Witnesses. I am guessing that your mom is a smart lady (she is my sister you know), I am guessing that because you seem like a smart guy (you have a way with words). I really do not think she is brainwashed. She is making her personal choice. She reads the Bible and understands that she needs to keep away from you. I don't know exactly why. Instead of just blaming Witnesses, which is the easy thing to do, have you examined yourself and how you speak to you mom. Danni is right, you should talk to her. Not about religion, beliefs, the Bible, but as a son and mom.
To answer some questions that you posted (I guess so that I could be impressed somehow): Yes, I did know Fred Franz. I also know and spoken thoroughly with all the present members of the GB. I also spent time at Bethel. But really all that is irrelevant. I don't know what you saw or what you imagined you saw, but I believe that you are blinded by your anger and emotions. Good luck with that.
OUTLAW

Hey Yo-Yo,So now your an expert on Daves life eh?Or was that Randy?Real nice of you to tell him how to interact with his mom.Maybe the the next time you talk to Randy or Dave you can tell him all about his mom.I hope he rips you a new asshole..LOL...OUTLAW
seven006

YoYo,
Like most JW's you impress yourself with the thought that you inherently know the hearts and minds of all people. My Mom is not "your sister" she is my Mom. My family is under complete cult mind control the same as you are. My Mom has seven other kids to think about then just my sister and I. I understand that fact and in a show of unselfish and unconditional love I respect that fact and do not try and talk anything about bible junk in the few times I have seen her. I do not play the emotional crying game that my brothers and sisters turn on when I do pop into their life. I only see my family when someone is dyeing or dead. It's "their religions rules."
Yes, my Mom is a very smart lady but her need for religion and the belief in a God overshadows her level of intelligence. She was a very bright and strong catholic before the JW's showed up at her door. She bought into the religion for one reason and one reason only. She wanted to divorce my dad who was a bit of a bastard and constantly cheated on her. The catholic religion which she was brought up in did not allow divorces. The JW religion did in cases of adultery. She joined the religion, followed my dad around and caught him cheating. She got what she wanted. She immediately met my step dad and they got married. My step dad hasn't read anything out side of the JW publications in his life.
My childhood was a damn nightmare of little brainwashing gatherings.
My mom spent many years reading nothing but JW books. She bought the concept of only reading their garbage hook line and sinker. Now she is old and her family and religion is all she has. I do not want her to stop being a JW. I do not want her to hear and see the things I know about the religion. If the religion makes her happy and it keeps the rest of her kids in line then so be it. When you love someone you respect their thoughts and beliefs no matter how it effects your own life. If I could see her without my family sticking watchtowers under my nose I would really love that. It is they and not I that push the religious issues. I cannot deal with their condescending and self righteous attitudes. It is more important for them to wave the flag of their religion than it is for my Mom to try and enjoy the company of her son. That is not love, that is pure selfish mind control reaction. I was shocked to hear my mom actually tell my step dad to shut up. She had never done that before and I laughed my ass off.
Yes, I am also an intelligent person, more than you might imagine. I have more than a way with words, I have a way with logic, reasoning, thinking, and the ability to keep an open mind on all subject matter. I do not have the confinement of any religious philosophy to influence my observations and corrupt my decision making. I have an IQ that would shock you and the freedom of thought to use it. I have done a lot of reading and soul searching. I read the books and religious theory that the JW religion told their followers not to read. It became obvious why they did not want their brainwashed followers to read them. It had nothing to do with weakening your faith but more in reveling the lies about it. I can admit when I am wrong and look at it as a way to better understand myself and others. I do not blindly accept anything just because someone I respect feels differently and I do not reject their association because they do think differently. I do not assume that I am always right and I do not assume how someone else feels. I do my own thinking and do not allow a group of any kind dictate how I should fell about anything. I embrace truth and facts without reservation or distortion by a concept that I would "like" to believe or would make my life easier.
You say it is easy to blame everything on the JW's, that martyr stance is just one of the tools they use to control minds of people like yourself. I do not blame anything on the JW's they do not deserve. The only "easy" thing involving the JW's is being in the religion. They tell you exactly how to think in every aspect of life. None of it's members have to conjure up an original thought about anything. You keep the Jell-O mold laws of the watchtower in your head and you automatically have your thoughts on any situation predigested and ready to pass judgment on in a seconds. Not one single one of you has or needs the ability to think for yourself. In fact you are told NOT to! Your thinking is already processed for you like baby food is for an infant child who does not have the teeth to chew their own food.
Religious brainwashing has caused millions to die on this planet from a time further back than the Spanish inquisition and crusades right down to a hand full of religious fanatics flying jet airplanes into a couple of towers killing thousands. The JW's kill their own family members using psychological death as well as withholding life saving medical treatment. You are so blinded by your religion you can't see beyond anything they restrict you from seeing. Don't eat blood what a joke! Everytime you eat a piece of red meat you eat blood. That is an absolute fact and none of you will ever admit it. The next time you see that red "juice" flowing out of your medium rare stake think about that. Cooked or not cooked its blood!
You say you don't know what "I imagined I saw" at Bethel. Don't insult my intelligence by assuming I "imagined" anything. I was a full fledged brainwashed JW at the time I went back just as you are now. Do you really think the JW leaders would fly me back to New York from Portland Oregon to consult on extremely sensitive subjects if they did not see me as brainwashed as you? Do you think they would offer me my own private brownstone aparment in Brooklyn so that I could bring my wife and kids to live with me as I tried to straighten out their mess? I am a highly respected professional in my field and one of the best at what I do in the whole country. I am not and have never been one of the rank and file sanitary engineers of the watchtower society. I was asked to consult and help out because I have superior ability and knowledge in the areas they needed help in.
What I saw was contempt, fear, confusion, concealment of the facts and blatant stupidity! I saw elders on huge power trips who ran entire departments without any qualifications what so ever except for the fact that they were power hungry and egotistical elders. I saw hatred for these people and fear to disclose this hatred. I saw constat sneaking around, constant fear of being found out. I absolutely observed expenditures on equipment that just sat and collected dust because some dumb ass elder did not have the brains to know what it was. I saw a cast system of extremely privileged ones who treated subordinates as if they were worthless slaves. I met with a young brother from my kingdom hall who in a few short months was given the great honor of sharing a brownstone apartment with one of the almighty governing body. He accomplished this little trick because the governing body members last room mate was secretly kicked out of Bethel for getting young brothers drunk and having sex with them. I was told about how elderly JW who die leave their entire estates to the religion after they die. This is because they do not have any children to leave it too because the religion convinced them they were living in the time of the end and they should not have any children.
I saw much more and don't for a second say that I imagined any of it. I do not let things like that blind me to the fact that the religion I was brought up in and believed in was corrupt and concealed some of the most discussing things I had ever seen. The Brooklyn leadership has many liars, cheaters, manipulators and sexual deviants. I saw it first hand. I was shocked and appalled by what I saw. The secret locked library had only a little to do with it. When I was in that room and told that only a few were allowed in there because the "average brother" might not understand everything they would see in there, that was the straw that broke the camels back. You could go from shelf to shelf and see the publications contradicted themselves and constantly swapped religious theory. When the truth came out about the lies they called it "new light" and the average JW bought into it. The high ranking brothers in the room with me even had a little laugh about the whole stupid game. It made me sick!
Next time you are in Brooklyn visiting your governing body good buddies why don't you ask them if you can visit the library on the administration floor? If they have nothing to hide, they should unlock the door and let you browse to your hears discontent.
I gave my report on my observations and gave my recommendations on fixing the problems and I was asked to leave three days early. I kept what I saw back there to myself for a while because just like the people back at Bethel I was afraid of loosing my family. After a while I could no longer deal with living a lie. I quit trying to justify what I saw by their pat answer "the brothers are imperfect." I quit lying to myself about how I really felt about things in my own congregation. I took my own advice and made some positive changes in my life. I did it because I quit trying to "imagine" what I saw was not true.
The JW religions leadership is made up of mostly corrupt men with huge egos and a feeling of superiority that completely sickened me. You would have to be completely blind and totally brainwashed to see the things I saw and not question them.
DO NOT tell me what you think I "imagined" there. DO NOT tell me that I am the blinded one. My eyes are so wide open I had to eventually leave my wife and kids along with my entire family and friends because of what I saw there. If you had any idea of the reality of walking away from your whole life because of not being able to continue on being blinded to the "truth" about that religion then you are more brainwashed then the explanation of the word can define.
It is not anger that made me leave or speak of these things, it is "truth"! I gave up my entire existence because I refused to remain blinded to the things I saw and heard.
Don't for a second try and tell me I "imagined" one single thing. I did not walk away from a life and my family because I "imagined" anything. It took more guts and conviction for what is right than you will ever "imagine."
Keep your blinders on YoYo, they fit you well.
Dave
seven006

YoYo PS:
There is no need to apologize for calling me Randy. Being totally oblivious to the obvious is a JW trait that I have gotten use to. I do appreciate the effort though. I can see that you are sincere in your thoughts no matter how I view their authenticity.
Take care,
Dave
Focus

IslandWoman wrote:
Danni,
The machismo level of this DB has of late been drastically lowered, hemorrhaging in fact.

Machismo, pachismo. The word you are hunting for is "Passion".
To remedy which disagreeable change, I have been summonsed here by the Master of the Bethel Sewer.
Any objection, anyone?
AlanF is one of the last true blue "old" defenders of the unfaith, the last knight in shining armour, the deep moat around the castle, the lion's roar, the last hope for verbal nuclear holocausts upon the enemy, the only .......... well you get the picture.

What impudence - you should be ashamed of yourself!* WHACK! WHACK!!
While AlanF is surely some of these things, I remain most vigilant about his occasional pereceived sympathetic leanings towards the Filthy Whore of Babble-On, The Watchtower Blather & Trappem Sicksiety.
And now I am here too, not just parousiacally, but visibly.
As has been said before:
"Watchtowerinanity is a virus masquerading as a religion"
A treatment which does not recognize the nature of the ailment is less likely to succeed than one that does. "Attack the virus, not the patient - do no harm" is a good Hippocratic position, but here, the patient is the vectoring mechanism for the disease. So, sadly, the patient must be attacked too.
Someone's dear old mom, who may be genuinely kind, loving, giving, trusting and 100% duped by the Watchtower, is nonetheless daily (if she can manage it) purveying a FOUL and PUTRID DISEASE which causes misery for many, many millions of people - probably each Memorial attender has over some significant period caused MISERY for between one and five other people (who love them and are distressed at their involvement with the Kook Cult of Home Destroyers), plus often the person himself or herself. After removing duplicates, that suggests as many as FIFTY million lives harmed, or going to be harmed, by the Watchtower's current associateship. So AF's millions is a cautious statement indeed.
Let me make myself clear here. I VIEW THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF POSTERS IN THIS PLACE AS BORDERLINE WATCHTOWER APOLOGISTS. I say this in the hope that the statement produces no resentment. I include among these borderline apologists almost all the most "high profile" posters, excepting Kent S. and Norm H....
Am I unreasonable in my view here? No, and rightly so! There is no discernible middle ground between Satan's side and the other one. I keep my eye on these potential waverers... To illustrate: I caught one of them - in another time, another place - expressing his disbelief that there was a visible "inspired" usage of the term "Feet Class", etc. Now, what a cunning attempt that to insert into the mind of the unconsecrated ex-jW that "No, the Watchtower could not have been that dumb and idiotic - I would never have fallen for it".
The Watchtower is far more cunning and more idiotic - and yes, the two co-exist happily and eutectically (in near-optimal balance), even synergistically (the idiocy weeding out the dangerous Intelligent Class, who are very damaging when they leave) - than most here seem capable of comprehending!!
WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!
For the Watchtower Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses Cult is a clear embodiment of SPIRITUAL-PORNOGRAPHY and -PEDOPHILIA, a WOLFISH TRICK, a MOST FILTHY LIE, a CHEAT, a SCAM, a DISGUSTING ABOMINATION, a BLASPHEMOUS INSULT, a WICKED FRAUD, a DISGRACE, a SCANDAL - and a DAMNED OUTRAGE from start to finish. Why argue about it?
Clear, you backsliding hounds?
And the idea that AlanF could hurt the feelings of You Know is perfectly ludicrous. . . . . . or that the filthy F iend Class, who spread spiritual pollution under their guise of reasonableness, could possibly have their feelings hurt by me.. haha!
Remember, these scoundrels, Cult Criminals and spiritual-excreta have the sheer audacity to tell those I love that they, and their minor children, will soon be killed by the Cult Leader - unless my loved ones become unpaid salespeople for a ruthless multinational publishing Mega-Amway! Filth, despicable, hateful filth from the sickly paps of the Great Whore.
Any psychological problem AlanF theocratorectically may have (he has been so accused in this thread: I see little evidence to support such a view) is not connected with his hating the Watchtower, but to his not hating the swinish Watchtower enough!
WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK! WHACK!
--
Focus
(* Class)
AlanF

Thank you, Focus, for the backhanded compliments.
You're a master at damning with faint praise.
AlanF
Focus

AlanF wrote:
Thank you, Focus, for the backhanded compliments.
You're a master at damning with faint praise.
"Compliments"? "Praise"?
Ummmm - where??
Seriously, though: instead of shadow-boxing here, why not leave the entertainment of sock-puppets to others and work on (or collaborate towards producing) a systematic refutation and rebuttal of some major publication by the WT or one of its foremost apologists?
--
Focus
(The Pen Can Be Mightier Class)

All this fighting is worthless

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