Great argument You Know.
Just one problem, I have heard Seventh Day Adventists, and Mormons use the same arguement to explain the activities of opposers.
Thus it does not explain the battle between light and dark,the great Universal "controversy" as Ellen G White called it, but is a convenient arguement used by Totalitarian churches to explain the activities of former members who now oppose.
If this proves we apostates here are of our father the Devil, then anyone who opposes any church he formerly was a member of is of the Devil.
All this fighting is worthless
Great argument You Know.
YouKnow: How can a person be evil because he want's to see his mother? what kind of persons would tell her not to talk with him or give her the impression it's wrong to talk with him? I just read that scripture it says people that commits wrongs according to the Bible's explantion. It does not say she should talk with her own child.
though, we have made plenty of mistakes
It's nice to see you can admit that.
Englishman: I have been around people less than two days and see they need professional help. Come go with me on the job for a day and see if you have that same attitude. It's not people like him (youknow) that has responding to questions or comments with insults it's people like you who in here that cannot stand anything said, against you but don't have a problem with insulting others,because you have a problem with opinions you disagree with..
I will not tolerate this kind of attitude from you at this time or any other whether I come in here for an hour , week , or two minutes. I hope I made myself clear to you.
2 John 7-11
The Jerusalem Bible: "There are many deceivers about in the world, refusing to admit that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh. They are the Deceiver; they are the Antichrist. Watch yourselves, or all our work will be lost and not get the reward it deserves. If anybody does not keep within the teaching of Christ but goes beyond it, he cannot have God with him; only those who keep to what he taught can have the Father and the Son with them. If anyone comes to you bringing a different doctrine, you must not receive him in your house or even give him a greeting. To greet him would make you a partner in his wicked work."
New World Translation: "For many deceivers have gone forth into the world, persons not confessing Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Look out for yourselves, that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward. Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. He that does remain in this teaching is the one that has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching never receive him into you homes or say a greating to him. For he that says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."
The big question of course is what exactly is an antichrist, how is that defined? But as you see if a religion comes to the conclusion that someone is of that category then the scriptures demand that he or she no longer be associated with or even given a greeting.
I am no longer a JW. But I did think it important that you see the whole picture. Yes, the JW religion goes beyond most main stream religions in their adherence to scriptures, they also twist scripture as other religions have done. I did not agree with seven006 though that the NWT is to blame, or is a total bunch of garbage. It has its problems to be sure but as you can see it does not always stray from the Greek and Hebrew texts as he accused.
Truth is the main thing. I hope all the best for you in your journey to find it.
YouKnow: I see from your words you do enjoy your battle with Alan. I misunderstood this. I felt you were being attacked because of what appears to have been harrassment over you not answering some questions and not approving over the ones you did answer. If the two of enjoy fighting by all means do so. But please stop using God as an excuse to fight and debate. I have met someone who is willing to answer my questions without all of this, I will go to this person for answers. My questions are all heavy I am just to kind of person to ask them. I can see this is no place to ask them. I am not looking for fights or starting them just looking for answers.
For those of you who gave me honest answers I think you all very much, and I apprciate your warm welcomes. I will continue to look into the matters Dave. I promise. Let's keep intouch.
To which, IslandW, I say, where does Christ say that one must become enslaved to any organization? An organization that insists upon absolute compliance with its Dictates.
This is not what Christ taught.
Any relationship with Christ must be a personal one, but the Organization takes focus off the individual relationship with Christ
putting Christ in a secondary position.
The Born Again movement is closer to the Truth than The Witnesses. Of that I am convinced.
Since I don't believe in anything the bible says in any translation I can't ague your point. Whenever the date of the NWTHS creation is irrelevant to me. It is still a tool they use to control their people. If my comment came off as a blanket one then I apologize for that.
Religion in general is, in my opinion a tool to control the lives and thoughts of others. As far as trying to do anything as a disservice to Danni you are welcome to your own opinion. I do agree that the real facts should be brought out here and If I was wrong in one aspect of what I have said I will be the first to rectify that statement. You can quote from ten different translations of the bible and it will not hold a drop of water of merit to me. I can find the same exact stories and myths that are told about Christ in any of the Hindu or Buddhist writings about Krishna and Buddha. It's all the same game to me.
I know my Mom loves me. But the power of her cult and it's teachings can make a person do and think things that are seen as unnatural to any normal person. The love for ones own child is the strongest bond on this planet. Imagine the amount evil it takes to break that bond in the name of love and a god. I can't help admire my moms conviction for her faith even though I know by doing so I am forced out of her life by it. The last time I saw her she couldn't stop crying. Out of her nine kids, I was her favorite and she has told me that before. I have a hard time seeing her cry the few times that I did see her. It really upsets her knowing that I am a good person and a great dad and her religion forbids her to even have a simple lunch with me. It only goes to show you how powerful a grip a cult religion has on a persons mind. It is unnatural and goes against all laws of decent humanity. All in the name of a loving god and religion.
Danni, I really appreciate your thoughts and your compassion. I think you are learning a lot here and it is not what you bargained for. There is more pain and more outlandish concepts about what love is in regard to the JW issue than I think you wanted to know. Every thing you have read in the past few days is going to make you even more understanding the next time you are confronted with anything having to do with religious philosophy and the minds of religiously fanatic people. Next time someone tells you that we are all victims of sin because a talking snake told a naked lady to eat a piece of fruit you can just smile and think of what that little story has done to some pretty decent people.
You will find your own peace with this all, I can tell you have a very good heart and a sharp mind.
Take care Danni,
I am no longer a JW, so for me there is no need to DEFEND anything about them.
As for the term "organization" it seems to be just a subtitute for the word "church". (The JW paranoia to be different than Babylon the Great may have something to do with this.)
Every major religion has structure and in that structure is a hierarchy composed of various levels, an "organization".
For as much respect that I have for your intelligence it is unfortunately overshadowed by your coldness and constant lack of compassion for your fellow human beings. You wouldn't know real love and compassion if it died in your arms.
As the old saying goes, a mind is a terrible thing to waste.
Take care Robert,
I am not a defender of the Bible, as aChristian can assure you.
My point was that to single out the NWT as such a bad translation that it is the major culprit in this thing, or to infer that they have invented a Bible for themselves is not true.
If you had said that one of the problems with Christendom is the Bible, then I would have agreed.
My only reason for comparing quotes from the NWT with the Jerusalem Bible was to show that the NWT is not exactly what you claimed it was. I felt this was important for Danni to understand otherwise she will be caught off guard when and if a JW does show her that the NWT is not as way off base as you claimed.
I will be more careful how I word things next time. Thanks for making your point. It is appreciated.