I'm just waiting to hear BlueGrass use the phrase "celebrated WT scholars---oh please no!
Immortal Soul? Impossible!
by wannabe 114 Replies latest watchtower bible
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isaacaustin
LOL Carla, that's all we need. I need a good laugh.
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isaacaustin
I could never figure out why pseudoscholar celebrated those so-called scholars. Hmm??
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BurnTheShips
Lets take it easy on Blue Grass the new guy. Let's not run him off. We were all where he is now at one time. I used to spend hours defending WT doctrine online. It takes time.
BTS
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isaacaustin
You are right BTS. We were all there at some point so perhaps we should lighten up. Although if Blue grass dropped the sarcasm I would think he would be accepted a bit easier.
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Mary
Yes you're right BTS, we all defended 'the Truth' in our lives. I have no problem with Blue Grass defending his beliefs, but perhaps he needs to learn to stick to scripture instead of acting like an idiot. His comments to Leolaia, Robdar, isaacaustin and myself were pathetic. He is obsessed with the one scripture about Jesus preaching to the spirits in prison. Is it talking about fallen angels from Noah's day or departed souls? Let's say he's right and it's speaking about fallen angels. He has completely ignored all the other scriptures that Leolaia and I have offered him as evidence that the bible does in fact, teach that there is life after death. He instead attacks us and sneeringly suggests that we really don't know the scriptures very well, or that it's lifted from the Qu'ran or that it's a "terrible example." Why? Because he has no rebuttal for these scriptures and deep down he probably knows it.
Perhaps if Blue Grass would come down from Mount Olympus for a moment and have a real discussion without acting like a fool, he'd find a more receptive audience.
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Terry
A discussion of "soul" and "spirit" is PRE-ENLIGHTENMENT for heaven's sakes!!
The Pre-enlightenment genius relied on his wits to shape a world view. Even the most brilliant thinkers were plagued by superstion, metaphysical belief and a huge void waiting to be filled by Science.
We DON'T LIVE IN THAT WORLD ANYMORE!!
Yet--here we are discussing "soul" and "spirit" as though any of us even know what we are talking about!
Any reference to what THE BIBLE says is bewildering in view of the fact it is a combination of Pre-historic and Pre-Enlightenment thinking fradulently passed off as a Close Encounter of the 3rd Kind with Supernatural beings in the sky!
God gracious, people!
Snap out of it!!
The Bible is not a source authority on reality. Period. End of story.
We are all intelligent people who got dragged in to a swamp of pathetically stale nonsense where we almost suffocated from the lack of oxygen in our lives. The Watchtower Society filled us with Pre-Enlightenment superstition and created in us a mindset that made Metaphysics more real than the stitiching on our socks!
But--we ESCAPED! Let's not willingly leap back down the rabbit-hole in search of the Cheshire Cat's floating smile---shall we?
SOUL and SPIRIT have no place in 2010! Giants fathered by angels, talking animals and virgin's who get pregnant are for people braindead and uniformed. WHY BE LIKE THEM???
Sorry about this rant.
Go back to your discussion. I'll go quietly now......
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Leolaia
Blue Grass.....Why did you focus on that and on none of the other texts I mentioned? The ones you focused on were down the list for a reason. Without recognizing that those gathered into Sheol continue to have an active (tho lethargic) existence, and that Sheol was construed as a place, as established in the other texts I mentioned, you wouldn't see that it isn't just a matter of the dead buried in some abstract collective "grave". Just go to my original thread and read the lengthy discussion where I make my argument. It is obvious when you consider the material that (1) The nephesh bears the individuality, the living "I" of the person, (2) the nephesh departs from the body at death (not as a "soul" but as the first part of the body to decompose), (3) the nephesh descends to Sheol but also could be trapped or confined inside containers, tents, and so forth, (4) one's nephesh could start departing to Sheol even before the person has died completely, as a person's life drains away (5) the dead person in Sheol, called a rephaim, has a continued active existence, mimicking their activities in life, bearing some physical similarity to the person who died, they also emotionally respond in ways expected of a dead person, (5) these rephaim may be "roused" by the living, such as necromancers who appeal to them as a source of hidden knowledge (which was banned in the Law because only God's prophets should have that role), and they were fed by having food and drink left on the tombs of the dead, (6) the dead who are "roused" from Sheol may appear on the surface of the ground as 'ob "ghosts", (7) the prophet Samuel is one dead person residing in Sheol who was "roused" and called upon for necromancy, the author presented this ghost as nothing other than Samuel himself. With all of that in mind, people dying looked forward to meeting their ancestors when they are gathered into their assembly in the postmortem state. See the quote from 4 Maccabees I gave on the past page for an elaboration of this view.
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Leolaia
Terry.....When discussing ancient texts and ancient POVs, existential "reality" is besides the point. People study world religions all the time without thinking of whether each particular group of traditions is "real". It is more about trying to represent in some way the mindset, the worldview (or indeed worldviews), that is presupposed in a body of literature. I'm interested in this only to clarify what views are expressed in ancient Hebrew and Jewish texts.
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BurnTheShips
SOUL and SPIRIT have no place in 2010! Giants fathered by angels, talking animals and virgin's who get pregnant are for people braindead and uniformed. WHY BE LIKE THEM???
You've got some strong opinions, don't you Terry?
I'll cling to my primitive ideas, though.
BTS