Apostate Brainstorming Session

by AllTimeJeff 83 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • cyberjesus
    cyberjesus

    1.- JW are not allowed to read the internet or any book that comes from outside sources

    2.- Even if that changed any information that attacks the WT is automatically dismissed

    3.- They can not think by themselves.

    4.- They will follow everything the GB says because that comes from God.

    Those are facts. In order for a good standing JW to have doubts and start looking for information we need to break at least one of the above mentioned items. So now lets reverse engineer it

    1. Present information in places where JW can read it. Mass Media, News Papers, Schools boards, libraries, or any other place where JW go and tha they can feel ok reading.

    2.- Information must not attack the WT rather has to be presented in apositive way. Allowing the reader to discredit the WT himself.

    3.- Instead of presenting facts where the reader reasons the information must force the reader to question himself. Questioning leads to thinking.

    4.- Enuf information must be presented discrediting the GB. Maybe Scandals, Out of court settlements. Bad desicions of the WT. Things that question the holliness of the GB.

    Maybe I am missing more points but thats what Ive discovered by trial and error. I have helped 3 of my family members out plus my two kids but ive failed with at least 6 :-( but I didnt know by then.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    What about a billboard across from main bethal branches with some wts quotes with a referance would surely make a lot of jws check it out. Would it produce anything? Who knows but that would surely get WTS jumpy seeing a billboard like that across from their "holy" bethal. Not only are there a lot of people working slaving at these buildings but these buildings also attract a lot of jw visitors, also a lot of new studies visit the "holy" sites.

  • AllTimeJeff
    AllTimeJeff

    Diamondliz, I love that idea!

    Interesting, so it really is a lack of $$ to do anything of substance to expose JW's, other then CoC and the internet? Imagine if we did a big billboard. Got the letters from the elders (that would be easy to do) and have former elders add comments and context to a website... Then have the money to defend against lawsuits.

    Interesting..... I must be day dreaming.

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    The Billboard across from the WBT$ would be funny..

    With a picture of the old "Millions now living will never Die" campaign..

    From the Rutherford era..

    It would be Supremely embarrassing for the WBT$..

    But..

    Billboards cost money..

    Out in the middle of frigg`n nowhere they are worth $50.00 per day..

    Across from the WBT$ would be a small fortune..

    Then you`ve got the inevitable legal costs.

    Ect..ect..ect..

    .................. ...OUTLAW

  • The Oracle
    The Oracle

    What we need is somebody like Prince or the Williams sisters to get DF'd, get pissed off and then throw some money behind one or more of these ideas.

    Imagine if Prince got ticked off and left and took up a crusade to expose the WT? That would be interesting.

    I love the billboard idea by the way.

    I also like the idea of having information exposing JWs appear in reference material that is not anti-JW centric. For example if a lot of information were to appear in documentaries, magazine and newspaper articles that focused on cults I think it would be quite helpful.

    The Oracle

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    If the billboards were to quote WTS publications how could wts sue? It isn't slander nor is it defamation, so what could they go after you for? If the board quoted Russell something like

    Headline: God's Guided Organization without a doubt

    "1914 is the end not the beginning but the end" Wt xx,xxxx

    "1874 definite proof of Christ's return" - wt xx,xxxx

    "1925 has more bible proof than 1914" -wt xx,xxxx

    Organ transplants = canibalism - wt xx,xxxx

    bottom: But that's old light now, God's spirit was just testing

    BTW quotes above aren't exact but the point is how many witnesses have any idea about these teachings. Nothing slanderous just quotes something to make people think :) Price would be an issue but if one could talk to a lawyer before doing something like this to double check on legality and what could happen, hey it would be funny, I wouldn't mind throwing in some cash for a fun cause :) Isn't there any x-jw lawyers that could advise us here?

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    I think that cults will always exist as some have already pointed out many times on this forum because there are people who need this. Sad, isn't it.

    Primarily, I believe a key requirement is to remove the need. I think Education is key. Part of what we do here on JWN, the Internet and YouTube, and the books that have been written helps. I think teaching people, especially children, how to think is very important. Also, educating people on important life skills. For example, mandatory financial courses as part of the curriculum in public and/or high school. I took a "Personal Finance" course in College which basically took us through each decade of life and what that entails. I think this should be mandatory in high school. It was very interesting and good to know. Some recent reports have surfaced that state that household debt in North America is out of control and that most people do not have adequate funds for retirement. Another idea is a course on how to plan your life. Let's awaken and continue to encourage children's passions for life, instead of curtailing it so they end up on depression meds the rest of their days. Habits developed in youth are ones that are carried out in adulthood. Lets develop good ones.

    Support mechanisms such as mentoring, coaching, and counselling are also needed in concert with education as these cults tend to target those who are at weak or low moments in their lives. One example from my family was the retirement of my Father. He had no plan. Why? I think it's because he was never trained to do this. The support mechanisms need to be more available and affordable (even free or government assisted). Again, the cult is fulfilling a need so let's remove that need.

    Another avenue I feel is needed is legislation. I believe any destructive group should be illegal and any that are discovered, held accountable. I would love to see legislation enacted that makes it mandatory for background checks to be done on anyone in any sort of position of authority in a group, that any past criminal records, especially sex crimes, be made publically available for all, that any destructive behaviours or policies of the group are made illegal (ie. refusing life saving medical treatments, policies that protect the organization and not the members, rules that forbid education, etc).

    So while I believe the above list is necessary, it's a lot of work and will probably take a long time to get this changed, since I am talking about changing, worldwide, Education systems, assistance programs offered to the public, and changing or enacting laws.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    The idea of "exposing" the GB is a bit ambiguous imo.

    I feel that because the Watchtower is an institution (i.e. social mechanism), the rules of institutions must apply. For instance, once the groundrules have been established for how the institution should function (something I would argue occured long ago inside the Watchtower), a more darwinin system of development is likely to take over.

    Some people in the org have certain spheres of influence, but all are limited. Each person is forced to follow his own self interest, usually through personal dedication to the groundrules. Dedication to the rules becomes the test by which loyalty can be measured. Everybody tests one another.

    Because of this, I tend to believe that individuals with positions of power within the organization probably are far more negligent than they are purposefully deceitful. They work in their own interest, but also in the interest of what they feel is just and right (e.g. the groundrules). They are likely to ignore problems, or create elaborate reasons for why no problems exsist.

    I agree with others who say that active engagement against the organization serves little purpose. Ex-jw communities, like this one, are helpful for people who have already made the choice to leave. The net has given people the chance to find this info eaiser.

    I tend to think that the real problem doesn't rest with ex-jws per se, but with academia. Because the JW's do not actively engage the academic world, articles and books which place the witnesses within theorhetical concepts (e.g. communication theory, comparative religious studies, etc.) is lacking. Good history books on the org are hard to come by. I think analyzing the organization from this perspecitive could be very insightful, but it takes work! As of yet, there is little interest in anybody out there developing some kind journal or organization that really studies the organization as a religious phenomena. Most of the work has been done by ex-jws, which has both positive and negative aspects.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    I think that the people that are prone to question will find the truth and those that aren't, won't be convinced by any manner of evidence.

    Indeed, to a JW the very act of being "persecuted"confirms they are in the truth.

  • Razziel
    Razziel

    To go along with Heaven's post, general education plays a large part. Some people possess the intelligence to intuitatively distinguish valid from non-valid and strong from weak forms of argumentation, but most of the general population needs to be educated to sound methods for doing so. A lot of people can't even idenfity circular logic. I faded about 3 years before I went to college, but when I finally took "Logic and Critical Thinking" in school, it really helped me put words and methods to some of the ways I had previously evaluated arguments and gave me some new ones.

    We're not just fighting the control of a human institution masquerading as Christ's substitute, we're fighting human nature as well. Our brain protects us from many hurtful situations in our past or present. Though many of us confront our manipulation by the Society, I'm pretty confident most do what I initially did when leaving, which is the basic "fight or flight" survival mechanism. You may initially think you're going to "fight" it, but once there seems to be no way to realistically "fight", we got away as fast and as far as we could. The mind further protects us by refusing to think about or dwell on the past. (Though that's hard at first if your family and friends refuse to speak with you.)

    That survival mechanism works the same way while you're still in the organization, and it isn't just because the Society conditioned us to think that way. Once we make such a life-altering (and at the time, a seemingly carefully considered) decision to join up, our brain tends to bias or ignore anything contrary to our decision. On top of that is the Society's direction to ignore the "fight" when it comes to apostasy and fleeing from it. It's very hard to get past that, but not impossible.

    If I were going to put up a billboard, (particulary if I wanted to direct people to a website), it would not relate to anything doctrinal or a known controversial JW subject like blood and dying kids. It would be a statement that is borderline unbelievable, such that it gets someone's attention (possibly makes them laugh), and stays in their mind long after they drive by, hopefully telling their friends and aquaintences about it.

    Something a little too over-the-top would be: (Jehovah's Witnesses EAT BABIES!) theotherwhitemeat.org

    I know that sounds crass, but with todays blitz of media and advertising, it really takes something outrageous to get people's attention. Especially if they're trained to ignore it. Once to a website, anything presented has to be as some of the other posters mentioned. Primarily a list of facts and experiences. Let people draw their own conclusions. You get a lot further in persuasion if the other fellow thinks he came up with the conclusion on his own instead of trying to cram it down his throat.

    More ideas later, gotta go work.

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit