Whoops, RutherFRAUD, have already started a thread... Zid
My Wife is demanding that I stop coming to this board.
"Last night, she asked me to stop coming on here out of respect for her."
In order to respect or disrespect someone, you have to do something that directly affects them. Coming to this board does not directly affect her. This kind of reasoning that by coming here you are disrespecting her is a control tactic via the means of manipulation. I have been through enough abusive relationships in my life time to say that without a single doubt. Any time one of my abusers wanted me to do something that went against my personal wishes, a lot of times they would pull out the "respect" card. Don't fall for it.
Additionally, you do NOT have to tell your wife about this board if doing so will illicit this kind of manipulation on her part. Trust is something that is earned, it's not a right, even when you are married. If she has not shown herself worthy of your trust in this area via attempts to control what information you access through manipulative means, then don't trust her with this information.
If your wife expects you to respect her beliefs, she needs to do the same with you, bottom line. That obviously is not happening. She expects you to respect her beliefs and expects to exert control over your beliefs as well. There is a name for this kind of behavior - it's called "spiritual abuse"! And it is considered to be right up there with other forms of abuse such as verbal, emotional, mental, and even physical! ANY attempts to control your behavior rather than allow you to make your own choices is considered abuse.
As to why your wife is so serious and pushy about this - you can blame the JWs. I know it sounds too easy but it's the truth. The JWs first of all make it clear that any one married to a non-believer needs to push for them to get involved as well. They also tend to make it seem like your marriage is doomed to fail if you're not married to another JW. Now let's add on the shame someone feels when married to a non-believer because of all the talking that goes on behind their back about it. And then let's not forget the fear that you are becoming an apostate, someone that she will not be able to have any contact with whatsoever...
She's scared, and with so many reasons to be afraid being thrown at her, it's really no wonder why she's trying to take over control of the situation by taking over control of you. Humans need the ability to feel in control of their lives, and the WBTS takes that control away from them and then when they feel out of control the WBTS points the finger at Satan and "the world" (which includes YOU). So of course the next step is to try to take control... which they are led to believe means they need to get rid of Satan and all his nasty influence. She thinks you're being misled by Satan and that through him influencing you he's going to start influencing her, so she's trying to nip the "problem" in the bud by stopping him from influencing you so she doesn't have to cut you off as a person.
Wow I hope that makes some sense... JWs can be so confusing, even for those of us that have grown up with them.
Anyways, I know I'm a little late commenting on this topic, but I just joined yesterday and I really felt the need to speak out about this one. Boy have I been down that "respect" road too many times before... it's a doozy.
Next time she tells you to stop hanging out with people you don't know and never met. tell her to stop reading the WT literature..cause she doesn't even know the NAMES for the GB..and I'm sure she never personally met one let alone all..
Thanks for your honesty, and I wish you and your wife the very best.
A few things.
1. I couldn't have said this better than Greenie did:
Also, I know folks on here are telling you to pull the headship card, but if you don't believe in it or in what the WTS teaches, I don't think you should use it. In a warped way, that would add credence to their teaching. I understand the sentiment, but I'd rather win on merit than on a technicality.
I think all advice should be gender-neutral, applicable whether you were a man or a woman. So the advice to activate the antiquated headship nonsense doesn't sit right with me.
2. As Bourne said:
Just know what problem you're fighting.
I fear the JW issue, as huge as it is, may be masking a control issue in your marriage. And it may not be as simple as her needing to control you. Possibly you have a need to be controlled? Either way, this won't be solved by deciding whether or not to visit an internet discussion board populated by previous Jehovah's Witnesses.
3. She is in a high-control group, and you are not. Make it very clear that she is overstepping a mark by trying to control your internet activity. She threatens to cut off your internet access? What a red flag. WAY out of line, by any standards.
4. Garyneal, you said:
I've given up trying to plan things for the two of us now.
Isn't that a bit dramatic? It sounds like yours is a marriage worth saving. Don't stop loving her.
But I think you need to sit down and have a good, hard, painful conversation about love, divorce, and why you are together. If her heart truly is elsewhere (and not just in the Watchtower, but perhaps somewhere else in the Kingdom Hall) then perhaps you have to consider letting go. Secretly discussing intimate details of your relationship with an elder or elders is something I would consider a deal-breaker, personally.
Marriage is difficult enough even when religion isn't involved.
5. Moshe said:
The goal is- I don't agree with all 100% of the WT teachings, JW's are weird - no fun to be around, and JW's don't display the biblical fruits of charity that Jesus commanded- = maybe I don't like being a JW anymore.
His three steps are fantastic - the small things, fun, and charity. They tap into the truth that adherence to the JW religion isn't about doctrine at all, really. ("The creator of the universe is about to kill everyone except Jehovah's Witnesses." How retarded is that?)
What keeps people in is the social stuff and the life-control elements. And guilt.
Good luck, dude.
Welcome to the board xmkx and Slayerbard,
Thank you for your remarks. I think my wife does believe that I may be influenced by Satan by being on this board. In fact, I think she thinks I have been influenced by Satan since I started researching the witnesses religion on the Internet last summer. Truth be told, the only part of her concern that makes any sense is the fact that there are a lot of atheist and agnostics on this board. But I tell her that I am here for the support of dealing with the restricive religion in my household and the information concerning their beliefs and practices. Information that I know about them that has so far turned out to be true and at times I find myself knowing things that even she does not know.
For example, she did not know that Jesus was Michael the Archangel according to them until recently. She's a born in and has been around it for her entire life and she does not know that? I remember first learning this 5 years ago when I was under a 'study' with them. I find it amazing that this woman is considering getting baptized at the up and coming Assembly this March considering that there are still so many things that she does not know about the religion. She chooses to believe that the society has it all worked out and that their religion alone is the closest thing to the truth that she has ever seen. Personally, I think she is only doing this because a) she has so much family in it and she does not want to dissappoint them, and b) she is kind of doing it out of spite against me. Two very poor reasons in my book but for the moment she seems to have her mind made up.
We're planning to research 1914 together this coming Monday but I am afraid she is not going to look at the facts objectively. She's already saying that the society didn't say that Jerusalem was captured in 607 but that the persecution began in 607 B.C.E.. I think she is already looking for a way out. Shameful since she has been railing against me for my excusing christian churches for proclaiming that the reason for the Christmas Season is the birth of Christ even though she and I both know that Christ was probably not born on December 25th and that Christmas is a Christianized Pagan Holiday. Yet, she completely ignores the facts that 1914 was based on Pyramidology and Astrology according to Russell and that it was 'Christianized' by Rutherford to explain their being the only 'true' religion and hide their previous false prophecies.
If I can accept the facts that Christ was not born on 12-25 and that the holiday seasons were originally pagan, why can't she accept the fact that 1914 was not the year that Christ began ruling invisibly and that the origins of this belief was based on paganism and the false prophesies of the second adventists?
.....Gary.... (sisterly hugs of support)
As you peel back the layers of the 1914 lie....... remember to gently remind her there is a difference between facts, her feelings and her thoughts.
Ask her reasonable how she could not have known some of the 'basics' that every born-in should have learned by her age...... remind her that this is one of the reasons you doubt so much her 'making the troof her own' as many of your conversations seem to show a woman who while culturally connected to the JW lifestyle via upbringing is far from having 'accurate knowledge' of her own professed believe system. Compare not knowing Jesus/Michael similar to another Xian not knowing the concept of trinity.
Tell her, her own ignorance is one reason you cannot trust the WTS as she desires you too. Challenge her that if she truly believes this is the 'right and only' path to salvation than no amount of reasearch on the internet nor WTS publications can prevent that truth from shining brightly.... and until that research is done thoroughly her being dunked is nothing more than a plea to be socially accepted by her religious peers, not the act of true dedication to Jehovah, his son or the 'spirit-directed organization'
Thanks Quillsky and welcome to the board,
A few things:
1 Corinthians 11:3 -- "Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God."
John 10:30 -- "I and the Father are one."
Mark 10:8 -- "and the two will become one flesh.' So they are no longer two, but one."
John 5:18 -- "For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God."
I quoted the verses above to help explain my view of the marraige arrangement and how I view headship. Now accordingly, just as God is the head of Christ so is a husband considered 'the head' of the household. However, God and Christ are co-equal just as my wife and I are co-equal. My wife is no less human than I and Jesus is no less God than His Father. Therefore, the running of our household should always be done by us both in all cases. However, we being human and being different people, even though we are one, may not always agree. In general, it is best to yield to the head of the household so long as it seems like the head has the best interest of the family at heart. Many times, however, I often just let my wife handle everything (even when I disagree) so long as it does not seem like her decisions are that which may be detrimental to our marraige or family. In fact, very seldom do I put my foot down and 'assert my headship' in decisions where we disagree for the majority of the time she gets her way.
So anyway, while I may be considered 'the head' I consider her my partner and my equal. After all, Jesus and God are equal and all authority has been given to Christ (Matthew 28:18).
Bourne makes a good point in that I do need to find the deeper issue here. At times, I can see my wife 'cracking' as even she is not sure about some of the teachings of the Bible. Like me, she finds it difficult to believe that a god of love would permit people to kill in His name. Even the idea of Moses losing his life all because he slipped up one time and said, "Look what I did," rather than giving glory to God. Especially considering that it was recorded that he only did this once out of all the good things he did.
Yet, my wife wants so badly to become a part of this group anyway. She's even shunned Christmas this year in spite of her celebrating it for the previous five years. She's even gone 'dub' on me when she talked about the miracle of how Earth's oceans are not overwhelming the land, as if the hand of God is holding them back. I was like, yeah the hand of God and the fact that gravity is holding everything down on Earth. She was like, "You don't seem to understand what I mean." I responded, "Well, considering that everything in the universe seems to follow a few simply laws of physics and considering that if some things were to change, like the gravitational constant of the universe, how it can have a devastating effect on the Earth tells me that someone engineered it and it cannot be easily explained as random forces of chance."
Obviously my worldview is becoming very different from hers.
Hopefully, I will be able to present these very concerns that you spoke of but I must now tread very lightly as she is at a point where she thinks my whole intent is to pull her away from the truth. The brainwashing is working all too well on her and I now need to change my tactics. Personally, I am beginning to suspect that my efforts have failed and I have already lost her to the cult. Never-the-less, I will still continue to pray and hope that there is something I can do to reach her. I am going to try moshe's 'three step plan' as my wife and I do need to spend more quality time together.
Tell your wife to read the article on Christian headship, and wifely subjection. And that she will not be used from the podium and her fudged hours will not be accepted no more.