ATJ, you seem like a young guy. I had to study it the first time round. There's a list somewhere in the publications of all the people in the Bible that represented the anointed.
Notes From the Annual Meeting - Oct 3, 2009
by daniel-p 148 Replies latest jw friends
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greenie
Right, the generation teaching and how they are changing it. I think, but could be mistaken, that the original teaching was that anyone alive in 1914 would live to see the beginning of Armageddon, or the Great Tribulation. I know this changed a bit in 1995, and now I suppose it's changing again? I also don't get when people talk about annointed up to 1935. If I were a R&F I would probably just go along with it because it's so complex, IMO.
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AllTimeJeff
ATJ, you seem like a young guy. I had to study it the first time round. There's a list somewhere in the publications of all the people in the Bible that represented the anointed.
I got my first exposure to this at Gilead in 2005.... Thats when it all came together that this wasn't da troof...
Right, the generation teaching and how they are changing it. I think, but could be mistaken, that the original teaching was that anyone alive in 1914 would live to see the beginning of Armageddon, or the Great Tribulation. I know this changed a bit in 1995, and now I suppose it's changing again? I also don't get when people talk about annointed up to 1935. If I were a R&F I would probably just go along with it because it's so complex, IMO.
Blondie may beat me to it, as I don't have WT Library, but the teaching was that the annointed stopped being collected after 1935. (that changed)From the 1940's until 1995, it was taught that the generation of annointed ones that saw 1914 would live to see the Great Tribulation. That changed in 1994, when the GB threw up their hands and said "We don't know for sure."
Now, according to the comments attributed to Barr, the annointed who saw 1914 will have lives that overlap with the newer annointed, and it will the newer annointed's generation that will see the Great Tribulation.
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daniel-p
The fact is, they don't know what they're teaching these days. It's a a big rotating wheel of doctrine, and the jdubs could really care less.
"It'll get here when it it'll get here," I can hear them say. Of course, the GB are too narcistic to just LET IT GO and stop trying to act like God's sole channel on earth.
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Doubting Bro
I had a post all typed out about how they're going to spin this change as just a clarification, but upon further review, I'm completely confused.
I thought the latest generation teaching was that it represented the "annointed" as a whole who witnesses the signs that Jesus gave. I thought they had in essense detached 1914 from the generation teaching since they said the generation was the annointed living during the last days. My take was that it left it wide open which of course isn't much of a promise from Jesus (this generation will see the end but generation really doesn't have any specific meaning) but it did allow them to keep the 1914 date without another failed prophsey.
So, now they are saying that people who were alive in 1914 would overlap (but since most of those folks are dead, not actually see) the annointed who would actually see the end? How on earth is that a generation? This makes even less sense to me that the convoluted defintion they currently have.
I agree that the pick of Barr was to make it easier to take the news that all the old timers are now expected to not see the end. I also agree that they may be trying to spin that into saying that the "new" annointed such as the GB members who are in their 50s and 60s are the ones that will see the end in their lifetime. Do you think they are going to make a push for a 2034 end date?
An end-time cult without an end-time date is the fundamental reason why apathy is so high among JWs at the moment.
Interesting stuff. Thanks for posting this.
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AllTimeJeff
Well, lets not get too ahead of ourselves... Barr allegedly made these comments. While it does sound official, it won't be until we see it in a WT. Although I am sure we will all be on the look out for this "new light".
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greenie
In 1994/95 did they try to make another explanation besides that they just didn't know? And so this new explanation is like Dissed said "They are just passing the baton like in a race. Its all one team of anointed generationites." Does this mean that they will have to change the teaching on the 144,000? Isn't that a literal number to them?
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OnTheWayOut
Bro. Barr repeated twice, "Jesus Christ meant lives of the anointed who were on hand in 1914 would overlap with those whose lives of the anointed see the start of the Great Tribulation."
This generation overlap thing is facsinating to me. I would venture to say that they have withheld adding new GB members since their 2008 change to "generation" because they had a simple majority on this goofy stuff and didn't want new dissenting votes. (The same simple majority that voted for this voted down adding newbies.)
If this new overlap is ever printed, it doesn't conflict with the 2008 change and it sort of almost makes the last two teachings (the generation was anyone born in 1914, the generation was wicked people in the time of the end who see the sign) seem like they were new light leading to newer light. Not quite, but it's enough baffling with BS to get past some of the believers who do their homework. It almost seems as if the stupid previous beliefs were slightly right, but now they got it right. The average member will be told this isn't anything new and he won't really understand it being new light or old light or conflicting or whatever.
It's not genius, but it is an attempt to dig themselves out of a hole.
I would imagine this comes out of the annual meeting so they can see a reaction to it before spreading it further to the members via the next DC and only then maybe printing something about it. (They will leave some room for loopholes for the 3rd generation of anointed, but the 2nd generation will all be dead, so it's not a high priority.) They want to see what strange thoughts come from the members about this so they can address them properly when they finally tell them this is their guidance from God.
The new peak in publishers in the U.S. is bogus. It's a huge collection of field circus slips from previous months turned in by July or August so the service year can be closed out. The average would show the true growth (or shrinkage) rather than the peak. Even that is skewed by the 15-minute publishers. The hours going up and the Bible studies going up is probably entirely from parents both counting studies with kids and the elders getting on all parents to "count" the study with the kids.
Australia: No one killed during recent tsunami. 2% increase over last year. 64,801 pubs. Increase in Bible Studies has been due to the arrangement to offer them on first visit.
Experience: At the Chinese District Convention the brothers had to travel many miles to attend. The cost for travel was $300.00 per person. One lady was offered to go closer to an English Convention. She went inside her house and came out with $600.00 for her and her husband. When asked why she didn't go closer to the English convention she simply said, "I don't speak English."
Is it me or does this sound so fake? The Chinese experience sounds like something they made up with nice round numbers. Who does this lady get the $600 for? Is there a bus or a plane waiting for her money? Why is it a "sister" instead of her husband making the decision? How do they know what the increase in Bible Studies is due to? I have the same take on that as I do for the U.S..U.S. Memorial attendance given- what about partakers? Ah, we shall see (if they let us).
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Heaven
The generation will have a definite end, can't be excessive long. Many of the anointed both older ones and younger ones have died BUT not all will die before the Great Tribulation.
Stay tuned for more information that will come out on this subject!!!Yeah.... stay tuned while we make something up and call it 'new light' .
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daniel-p
U.S. Memorial attendance given- what about partakers? Ah, we shall see (if they let us).
If it had gone down, they would have said so. In fact, I think thre's a good chance they'll stop publicizing the number of partakers completely. They'll have a WT article saying, "it doesn't really matter anyway, because Jah is in charge, blah blah."