Are we following men?

by jookbeard 80 Replies latest jw friends

  • Out at Last!
    Out at Last!

    Does things like speculation on dates important for salvation? (that is wrong to do so) If Jesus did not know the date how would men know how to figure it out?

    If that is true, then why does the WT point to dates that come and pass over and over again with no fufilled prophecy taking place? Remember dates predicting the end: 1874, 1875, 1914, 1915, 1920, 1975, ect? Why wouldn't god's only true conduit to mankind be able to know these things for certain before they put them in print? And yes they are in print, don't take others word for it, research it yourself. When I was in I was told that 1975 was never in print, but I found it twice with very little research.

    Alltimejeff - Most leave because they discover over time that the dogma of the Governing Body is erroneous, and that they have covered up significant events in their history, both in doctrine and in the private lives of their leaders, in an attempt to trick people into coverting or staying.

    Or maybe just the hipocracy and the self righteous attitudes of the "spiritual ones" in the congs.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    But I need mind control, don't you?

    This may be the most revealing [and scary] statement in his opening remarks.

    That statement explains why he won't reply to well intentioned questions as well.

  • Narkissos

    Being influence-free (the perfect idiotic ideal maybe, at least by the etymology) is not a practical option; human culture is always acquired by "following men" (and women) at some point; whoever cannot be taught will never learn ("mathematics" derives from the same Greek verb as the word for "disciple": to learn).

    The quality of one's education (and his/her ability to think "independently" to an extent) is related to the diversity of teachers and teachings s/he has been exposed to, directly or indirectly. This makes the difference between cult and culture.

  • AK - Jeff
    AK - Jeff
    those who are not JW's on a JW site

    Surely you cannot be that stupid after all this time, man!

  • yknot


    If you are looking to discern the historical proclaimations of appointment (Rutherford Era-present) or backing (Russell until 1922) by Jesus I suggest you start with Russell's early works and continue through to present day GB personalities. This way you can feel of good conscience by using only WTS publications and I would like to point out that in Ted's trade-off year 1914, 1918-1919 and The Finished Mystery were heavily promoted so such research could easily be justified.

    I will warn you that it is not for 'weak' JWs who have no foundational understanding of the WTS or it's politics. However it also would be wise to look back through our GGs (Gilead Grads) postings because they confirm the remaining mantle passing claim of the Knorr/Franz era (Rutherford also made this claim via Russell).

    By the time you finish I am sure it will lead you to a more compassionate opinion of those here on JWN who have been stumbled by such historical revelations........but in the end it is better to be like the Bereans as the Bible admonishes directly so as to discern those false-anointed forwarned in the Scriptures than finding yourself spiritually asleep following after the sayings of men...... thus ending any speculation in your mind regarding appointment.

    Many of us have PDFs or know of sites we could direct you to for reading of these publications if you so feel moved.

    (granted it would level the playing field some on JWN as most of us have enjoyed the uploads and discussions)

  • megs

    And I see there are those who are not JW's on a JW site are seeking to divert them from Jehovah's spirit directed Organization

    No one told me I'm not welcome here before!!!

  • Spook

    Yes, you are following ordinary humans...particularly poorly educated elderly anglo-saxon males living in social and intellectual isolation.

    God, were he to exist, would not need a human intermediary. And if he chose one, he could direct them with sufficient clarity to have a theology with no history of mistakes.

    Yet, your theology has a history of mistakes. So, either your God...

    1. Does not exist.

    2. Exists, but does not direct the governing body, in which case there is no reason beyond personal preference to follow their lead.

    3. Exists, and insufficiently directs the governing body. In which case he is either not all powerful, or not all good or both. Assuming the disjunction that "If God were to exist, then he would be all powerful and all good" ipso facto your God does not exist.

    4. God exists and sufficiently directs the governing body but they willfully resist this direction. In this case God is either (A) testing your obedience to humans who are willfully disobeying him, which would be irrational since were God to exist he would be rational and not want you to obey others more than him (therefore doesn't exist) (B) One of the following disjuntions must be true:

    4a. God is not all powerful

    4b God is not good

    4c God is relatively unconcerned with people having accurate knowledge of him

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    Here's some enlightenment for PJSCHIPPER

    The WTS. is a true American Publishing Corporation, it has always marketed itself as the one and only true voice of god, but through careful analysis

    of its teachings it is plain to see that god has nothing to do with organization and never will .

  • Twitch

    And I see there are those who are not JW's on a JW site are seeking to divert them from Jehovah's spirit directed Organization. All JW's on this site caveat.

    Yea, beware, true believers. This site will infect you with reason, critical thinking and love for your neighbor (as opposed to blanket judgements and elitisim). Hell, you might even realize you work for a publishing company founded a 100 years ago, that you don't get paid overtime and there is no pension plan.

    You're not in Kansas anymore,...


  • Rabbit


    What we have been taught by holy spirit, is not debatable.

    Bullshit. Why not? Prove it. By the way...I see you have totally avoided my questions about my JW mom's death. I figured as much, because you have no explanation of how your venerated spirit directed governing body could get something so wrong. You're worse that a just don't care about facts or people.

    Facts get in the way of your cognitive dissonnance.

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