Reform, can it be?

by jookbeard 90 Replies latest jw friends

  • diamondiiz

    pjs - No, no harm has ever befallen me like that. WTS only wasted my time and destroyed my friendships and youth since I was young and naive when I joined this miserable religion and walked away from good friends because they were not "acceptable to God" That's why witnesses shouldn't be allowed to study with other people's youth.

    It appears that the first century Christians didn't have a governing body as WTS claims. Paul wasn't of the 12 and he went and rebuked Peter on circumsision, do you imagine anyone today going and rebuking any of the gb in public? Actually Olin Moyle did to a much lesser degree since it was only in a letter to Rutherford and for that he was called Judas and evil slave. Ray Franz stood his ground and gb dealt with him in their typical decietful way by df him for having a meal with a landlord, boss and friend who da himself at the time when da was not a shunning offence - but gb fixed that loophole and da Ray for a meal he had before the mag date was even in effect.

    You're still finding out about wts and it's works and that's also why you seem to believe that your works as per WTS will bring you salvation. More you learn about GB the more you'll come to doubt most of their origianl thinking. if you need any old publications I might have the links you might use in your research If you want legal documents and stuff like that I can help with some but not many. Since you took upon yourself to research WTS start from the start. Start with Russell and ask yourself was he directed by God. If he wasn't when did WTS become God's channel of communication. That was my objective when I started my awakaning research. You'll discover that dying for the religion that is full of lies is dying for a myth that a religion build over 130 years and this myth is ever changing as older gb die off and newer blood gets appointed and the new voting may result in 2/3 majority causing so called new light and a new chapter to a story that promises you everlasting life on paradise earth where all will have only enjoyable jobs and all other nonsence that has been taken out of context and presented to the people as bible truth.

    Try not to get discouraged as you find more and more evidence that WTS is not God's channel of communication. Healing takes longer than discovering the truth unfortunately.

  • ldrnomo

    So, PJ, tell me, you must have read "Crisis of Conscience" and "In Search of Christian Freedom" by Raymond Franz true?

    If you read those two books and your still a believer in the governing body which by the way is the head of the organization despite the legal moves they've made in recent years then you are wasting your time here, we can't help you.

    The sand has already hardened around your neck.


  • jookbeard

    Avoid blood and it would benefit us? any scripture for that statement, avoiding blood and dying a long slow death ? is that beneficial, what WTS publication`even promotes this idea?

  • mrsjones5

    Sorry, I just read the whole thread and I have nothing to add other than that to the left.


    Using blood substitutes, is wiser and heals a person faster. Why make such a big deal?.....pjschipper


    There is no substitute,if you really need Blood..

    When that time comes,you either take a Blood Transfusion..

    Or Die..


  • diamondiiz

    pjs - you're repeating wts nonsense. I know quite well what WTS claims is God's direction and what they claim is his people. I don't need years to study. My old friends (pre-wts) were more real than any I met in the KHs. I could have trust them with my opinions, thoughts and life - that you can never do with any of your so called friends. For most part a witness will side with gb and will reject their friends or family member(s) for strangers they've never even met. Since I don't want to bog you down with too much I will bring up Mexican witnesses bribing army officials to get themselves a card fstateing they served a year in a military. This fraud had gb blessing as implied that other south american countries are accustomed to bribes so no big deal for witnesses to do likewise in Mexico with the military service card. Same time frame, Malawi witnesses were getting raped and butchered because they felt it would be wrong to buy a political card in One party state! GB had no problem with that either, after all they were able to use Malawi as an example of faith to show how people should act when it came to dying for the faith but how many articles or conventions mentioned that Mexicans were doing illegal acts to better their lot in life? I would say breaking the neutrality stand that is sooo important to gb. Oh this same chosen group had no problem being registered in Mexico as a cultural organization so they could own property while Mexican constitution since 1917 allowed all religions and cults to exist with the exception of owning property until that law changed in '89 or 90 when WTS actually registered itself as a religion in '89 if I remember correctly and made a big stink that Mexican witnesses could finally hold actual meetings like all other witnesses. It's religions like this that make people suffer and it has nothing to do with God.

  • mrsjones5

    "I'm not that smart to start with"

    Why do I keep coming back to this thread?

  • The Almighty Homer
    The Almighty Homer

    There have been people that have spent their entire lives devoted to the WTS. and their teachings and they subconsciously refuse to look at

    valid information that clarifies that the fact that the WTS. had never been directed or guided by the holy spirit, not then, not now,

    the only guidance they had was created by themselves and the motivational push to circulate their published literature.

    So buy their books, their magazines, their CD'S, their cassettes and whatever they produce they will always say that god

    uses this organization directly to communicate to humanity. Thats how the WTS. has marketed itself and their goods for more

    than a century, but the truthfulness of that statement has to hold up to scrutiny through use of the bible itself.

    Just like back in biblical times there were false prophets that made wrongful erroneous claims, so to to this day there are false prophets among us.

    The only difference that can be noted is that in these modern times false prophets are selling their prophecies to the public and are making huge

    financial gains for doing so. If you think Jesus or god would approve of doing such a thing you haven't been reading your bible very closely.

    There have been thousands of men past and present that have said that they are being spiritually guided by god's holy spirit,

    some times they have something beside them that they want to sell, those are the ones that you particularly have to watch out for its the wanted need

    for money alone that they are being guided by.

    I'm not that smart to start with..

    Did`nt Spike Tassel say the same thing?


  • diamondiiz

    Pjs - search out Mexican constitution (pre-1990) on the net and in that document search out religion if I remember correctly it should bring you to the part of the Mexican constitution that states that Mexicans have freedom to follow any religion and cult and other organizations and there is a part about these organizations being forbidden to own property and some other details that I don't remember exactly. You'll read that part and then you'll find yourself WT yearbook on Mexico, it's around 1990 era and ask yourself WHY wasn't WTS a registered religion when they could had been for decades.

    Next thing you search out if the "carilla" is a fact or Ray Franz's lied? Did Ray make it up? We all see things from different angles at times and we sometimes see things differently than others so maybe Ray was wrong in his observations that is why it is up to us to go and do our research to double check if his statements are correct. As far as I checked out his statements are true. Maybe I'm missing something which I would readily view more information if it is presented. I may not have checked all other facts which I admit but the story to my knowledge appears to be true.

    Would God use this organization as His own in such a manner to hurt people? I doubt it. God testing people is WTS lingo, it's more like wts' demands test people. Same nonsense as satan causes this or that, doesn't it appear that humans on their own can come up with enought evil inventions without a need of a spirit creature? I doubt satan influenced anyone in making an atom bomb, or how to skin a human or hang a man on a stake and light him up. Mankind has enough evil in himself to imagine all sorts of evils. Religion will claim it's satan's testing or god testing or satan causing or god allowing. Maybe we take it for what it is, in case of Malawi it's religion implying something and followers obeying. In case of job loss it is a circumstance that has occured and the individual needs to deal with it has nothing to do with testing. Religion makes people VERY superstitious and everything is either a test by god or satan or caused by god or satan. One gets a promotion and it's a blessing to one because the family will be taken care off better. Another one will claim it's a curse because one may miss a meeting - pure religious nonsense! No test, no god involved no satan involved, religious superstision and that's all.

    We hear (heard) examples as - a witness was about to quit service but decided to call on a house where he finds an interested one who prayed for answers from God. It's either a made up story or out of all these millions hours spend the coincidents is bound to happen that a witness calls on someone who may have been in distressed situation praying. The story is probably spiced up too to make it sound better and build emotion during a ca or da. There was a co who gave a fine example of him quiting his job and pioneering and relying on Jehovah and putting God's interests first and was blessed for it - but he never mentioned he was wealthy, retired early and was living well off his savings and had income coming in if I remember correctly, that little fact they never mentioned from the stage. Now it a naive listener thinks to himself "Wow, Jehovah must be really blessing this man, I should quit my full time job and pioneer since I'm young and healthy" (no not me :) ) now this naive follower tries it and barely makes a living, scrapes by from month to month and calls it either a test of his endurance or blessing for being able to survive on practically nothing. Religion makes people believe one way or another and twists reality however way you like it. Religion always points to something that's it;s a test. You choose a job it's a test. You choose your mate it's a test. Are you going to the meeting after you worked your ass of all day and are exhusted is a test. Give me a break, I doubt God has nothing better to do than test people constantly with mandane things that are part of regular life except wts like other high control groups doesn't want that reality to penetrate their followers minds since they may realize that their religion is the one that is testing them in their every move they make and not God nor Satan.

    Maybe I became too skeptical of all this testing by satan and testing by Jehovah but I don't buy it any more. Get rid of your superstition and you might see more clearly.

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