Christians explain? Jews never believed in a Trinity even today so how/when did it start?

by Witness 007 148 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • hamsterbait

    I can only say to all of you who have posted so far -

    You really are such daffy thengs.


    God only gave twighlight to the Jews. Full knowledge to those in Christ, of course.

    If you justify non belief on the grounds of what stone age nomads believe, why havent you chopped the end off your wiener like they did?


  • Chalam

    Here's you go, a whole wealth of evidence for the Trinity in the old testament going back as far as Genesis 1:2.

    Check out part three Is the Trinity spoken of in the Old Testament?

    The Trinity - 66/40 - K-House

    All the best,


  • BurnTheShips
    God only gave twighlight to the Jews. Full knowledge to those in Christ, of course.

    Hebrews 1:1-2

    In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

  • PSacramento

    If I recall correctly, the belief in the Trinity is NOT a basis for salvation for a christian, any christian, correct?

  • Satanus

    In view of the the surrounding prevalence of beliefs in godmen, there was pressure on budding christianity to create their own godman. I found this article which lists many of them:

    Examples of divine kings in history

    See also: sacred king

    Some examples of historic leaders who are often considered divine kings are:

    Hong Xiuquan


  • darkl1ght3r

    The Trinity doctrine is not an explicit scriptural teaching, but rather an implicit. Meaning that although it is not specifically taught in scripture, it is an attempt to make sense of all of the various things in scripture that have been said regarding the natures of God and Jesus. But even as far back as the early second century (in the writings of Ignatius) it can be seen that the doctrine was taking form in that the church fathers considered Jesus to be God in human flesh. Folding the Holy Spirit into the mix came a bit later, however. So even before the fomous "Nicean Creed" was formulated in 325, God and Jesus being one was already a widely held idea. I'm no expert but thats what I recall...

    But it seems to me that it's sorta like arguing over what color Santa Claus' underpants are.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough
    If I recall correctly, the belief in the Trinity is NOT a basis for salvation for a christian, any christian, correct?

    Actually, it is.

    "If you do not believe that I AM you will die in your sins." (John 8:24, 25).

    To believe that Jesus was, and is, the I AM is to believe in the Trinity doctrine, his (God the son's) triune nature (not the created humanity, the creature of Jesus, who was/is not the Almighty. None of the three Persons can be separated. The Lord is the spirit. Christ is the Spirit. The trinity is not three Gods.

    To confess that Jesus is Lord, a prerequisite to salvation, among other things, is to confess his divinity, that he is God.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    “If the pivotal assertion of the New Testament, “The Word was made flesh” (Jn 1.14), means anything, it signifies that two, the divine and the human, became somehow uniquely one in Jesus of Nazareth; that in Him was achieved a union, elsewhere unparalleled of God with man” (ibid., 918).

    The Church believes that Jesus Christ is true God, Son of God made man, the Second person of the Trinity, who took unto Himself a human nature and so exists not only in the divine but also in a human nature: one divine Person in two natures. The man who in His earthly life was known as Jesus of Nazareth was not a human person made one, as Nestorius said, in a unique way of moral unity, with the Person of the Son of God. He was God, Son of the Father, made man for men’s salvation. (ibid., 932)

    “His human nature, perfect and complete, was not a human person distinct from the Divine person of the Word … it was the human nature of a Divine Person. This point of our faith enwraps the humanity of Christ in full mystery. … His human life included true human knowledge and a human will distinct from the divine will” (ibid., 936).

    Our faith in Christ, the God-man, supposes that his humanity is not a human person (the mystery). For if it were, and if there were a duality of persons in Christ, then the Divine Person would not really be man but only united with a man; Christ would not be what our faith says he is.” (ibid., 937)

    “Christ is one Person, that of the Logos, in two complete and integral natures” (Council of Chalcedon in 451) (ibid., 921), but “U]nion of the human nature with the divine self in no way diminishes the human nature” (Constantinople III in 681) (ibid.,). “[T]he human nature of Christ had its foundation in the divine self, the Second person of the Blessed Trinity,” (794 AD, A synod at Frankfurt) (ibid.).

  • PSacramento


    Thanks for your point of view.

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough
    Thanks for your point of view.

    Much of that is also Catholic/Protestant views, not just my opinion. Basic stuff found down at the public library and in the halls of university libraries.

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