by Witness 007 148 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Yknot,
I am not a JW, my Mother, father and sister are.
I am not a trinitarian either.
Do you disagree that the JW "lessen" Jesus's role in the New Convenant? that they focus on "Jehovah" and not on Jesus? that, and Romans 10:13 is a prime example of this, they try to take the "power" out of Jesus's "name" ?
It's laid out in a chronological fashion. The author is Jewish and makes an honest effort (IMHO) not to take sides when explaining why early Christian thinkers drew the conclusions they did.
To be honest, I bought this book as a unitarian JW, to bolster my beliefs at that time. Even then, I could percieve that he had a unitarian bias (which I myself shared) in keeping with his Jewishness. It is still a good book, however.
BTS
PS, here is an extensive article on the subject. Hope it helps. http://www.christian-thinktank.com/trin02.html
Andthis is how it ends, a bit of a summary.
"What emerges from this cursory study of some OT passages is a concept of a plurality of agents, that are very much God, but still somehow separate agents WITHIN God. So the Angel of YHWH seems to be the main 'external interface' with humans and the Spirit of God seems to be the main 'internal interface' with us. In other words, an Israelite would meet God 'face-to-face' in the Angel, but would be confronted with God INSIDE his thoughts by the Spirit of God.
There seems to be an abundance of 'stubborn' data that there are multiple agents who can be appropriately called 'YHWH', and although there are STRONG prohibitions against idolatry in the OT, NOT ONCE is there any indication in the text that ascribing deity to the Angel of YHWH or Spirit of YHWH is considered blasphemous. Indeed, the grammatical and lexical data gives reasonable indication that plurality may be a basic aspect of the One God of Israel."
Now that I think about it, I suppose that post-Christian Jewish thought is also in some respects a reaction to Christianity.
ynot; Yes the JWs when firmly pressed admit Jesus' divinity.
That is utter and complete nonsense. The JWs teach Jesus was nothing more or less than a man with special powers. And I don't care how pressed a few of them are, most don't even know what the Society teaches. They simply have a different definition of divinity which is no definition at all in the trinitarian/christian context. Why don't you produce a quote where the Society admits Jesus' divinity as Christians and trinitarians view divinity.
ynot: The issue is with co-equal and co-eternal rather than divine nature
You're also wrong here like I mentioned in the other post. Produce some literature that quotes this, please. These issues aren't at opposite ends. In the trinitarian sense a divine nature means, among other things, co-equality and co-eternality. And with respect to co-equality, you must ask "equal in what sense?" You keep criticizing people for not having been a JW like it was some kind of badge of honor to have been one. It should be a badge of shame. At least the ones who never joined weren't gullible enough to fall for that load in the first place. You might say, they are the smarter ones in the long run. I don't see how that kind of scriptural ignorance makes one smarter or more knowledgeable when it comes to reading their literature. Distance lends itself to objectivity.
PS: The issue that the WT has with the trinity is NOT the trinity but the divinity of Christ,...
I agree for the most part, but you can't really separate them. The primary and core issue is the divinity of Christ, that He was and is God, but that is what econimic trinity is all about, the divinity having been extended to the HS after Nicaea I. But I totally agree that the fundamental issue which the JWs avoid like the plague is the issue of whether Jesus was and is God. They simply refuse to go there because they know they lost that battle in the 4th century, or even as far back as the first for that matter.
PS
I agree that the WTS has cloistered Jesus unto the alleged 'remenant and it's governing body' far away from the R&F pretty much like the Pharisees regarding the law in order to excerise authority and control like those vipers.....
Jonathan ....
The more you post the more I think you have very little working knowledge of WTS theology but the good news is many on JWN are helping you get a a proper education via litertrash and commentary!
I posted a link above to the current WTCD, download it!, should you desire other publication not found on the CD simple request it via a thread and if someone has a PDF they will upload it for you!
As far a producing litertrash I already directed you to the Reasoning book as regards to the presentation of co-equal/co-eternal. It is covered under the topic of Trinity......I assumed that your authoritarian slant meant you have had access to such information in the past.....
You keep criticizing people for not having been a JW like it was some kind of badge of honor to have been one. It should be a badge of shame. At least the ones who never joined weren't gullible enough to fall for that load in the first place. You might say, they are the smarter ones in the long run. I don't see how that kind of scriptural ignorance makes one smarter or more knowledgeable when it comes to reading their literature. Distance lends itself to objectivity.
I mean this with all sincerity on behalf of all Born-ins/raiseds.....YOU SIR ARE BEING A HORSESASS!
You have come to this forum and act as if you have all the answers, we should all just fall all over ourselves for your blog! Get over yourself you are no different in you self-righteousness of another well known "ASS" within the Organization. I don't go up to Baptist (who I attend worship service with twice a week) and proceed to act as an authority on their religions interpretations rather I humbly engage in non-agressive discussion of thought where my expertise is only of that which I was born....even though majority of my non-JW family is Baptist!
Perhaps it is you have much to learn from us rather than us from YOU!
Pagans, such as the egyptians and romans traditionally had god men ruling them. The jews did not. As judaism was opened up to pagan gentiles, they brought in their god man tradition. It's a continuation of an ages old tradition.
S
ynot: As far a producing litertrash I already directed you to the Reasoning book as regards to the presentation of co-equal/co-eternal. It is covered under the topic of Trinity......I assumed that your authoritarian slant meant you have had access to such information in the past.....
Pointing me to the Reasoning book isn't going to get you out of this. You can't produce a single excerpt to back up your claim. I'm very familiar with the Reasoning Book. Too familiar. And it is obvious you haven't read a word I wrote. That is your choice, but stop being such a self-righteous, sanctimonious JW know it all. Because you don't. Call me all the names you want to. That is fine.
ynot: cough, cough bullsh*t........ YOU SIR ARE BEING A HORSESASS! Get over yourself you are no different in you self-righteousness of another well known "ASS" within the Organization.
You call this non-aggressive polite discourse? A humble discussion? Come now, hypocracy does not become you.
