Why is the US so afraid of Social Health Care?

by eyeslice 298 Replies latest jw friends

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  coffee_black

  Justinia I guess you can't see it....but I'm not surprised. You admitted you are out for what is best for you, yet condemn those who think differently than you.. for the same "me first" attitude. It's ok for you, but not for them. I do not agree that what you want is best for the majority. I think that in the long run it will be harmfull to all of us.

  Busy Bee P.S. Coffee, hon, you're going to dislocate something if you don't stop trying to pat yourself on the back.

  So let me get this straight. I give an opinion that is different than yours, and I use my own life experience to illustrate... and that means I am patting myself on the back. Seriously? Maybe you would like it if I had just given up and had become dependent on the government. Could have. How dare anyone become independent? How dare I say that people are capable of doing more than they give themselves credit for? How dare I say that the solution is not in letting the government take care of us, but in becoming the best we can be as individuals? Guess I just need to shut up because I don't agree with you. Guess if anyone has a positive attitude and is happy with thier life they better not say anything about it, lest someone think they are boasting. Reminds me of the thought process of a lot of jws I've known... Done with that kind of attitude a loooong time ago. Hope you outgrow it too.

  and hon...you don't do condescention very well. You're better than that....but you have to learn that for yourself.

  Coffee
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  sammielee24

  Eyeslice - it was my understanding that both China and India were working toward and had already acheived partial success in implementing a universal healthcare system. The biggest problem is that they have billions of people to cover and not just millions - but they apparently are further ahead than the USA on this score. It was my impression that both of those emerging countries understand the global ramifications of not having that sort of system simply because it makes them more appealing to investment and relocation. That was my latest impression on advances there - also - there have been US media slams against the National Health Services in Britain where they've been using some people over there to tell horror stories about their own system and then replaying them in the USA as part of the propaganda machine. Investigative reporting has found out that the women they have used were tricked into making statements which were then taken out of context. The US media/government opposition has done the same thing with Australia and Canada....making a lot of enemies and not many friends. sammieswife.
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  Mary

  coffeeblack said: How dare I say that the solution is not in letting the government take care of us, but in becoming the best we can be as individuals?

  I believe that in alot of cases, you're right: it's always good to be independent and self-sufficient. But this just can't apply to every aspect of society. For example, I doubt you'd want this applied to citizens when there's a fire or if you're house has been robbed. In that case, you call 911 and they dispatch either the firetrucks or a cruiser, depending on what you need.

  What would happen if police services were privatized and not part of a "socialized" system? Let's say that in order to be covered for police protection, you cannot have had any previous break-ins or speeding tickets on your record or it automatically disqualifies you. People who live in high risk areas are shit out of luck and can't get any police protection and are, "on their own". Let's say you're one of the fortunate ones who actually are able to get a policy for police protection and you pay really expensive premiums each month, have a deductable plus co-payments. One night, you hear glass breaking downstairs. You dial 911 and explain the situation but instead of them automatically dispatching a car, you get asked if you have coverage and if so, what's your policy number? You give it to them, and wait while they check to see if you're covered. Alas, under your policy, it doesn't cover you if you have a glass door so you're on your own and good luck.

  I've brought up this scenario along with the reality that Americans already benefit from many socialized institutions: the fire department, public schools, and no one has said anything about it and it's not hard to see why. No one in their right mind would want to see a system like the one I described above put in place yet this is exactly how the American health care system is currently set up. It's not just a simple matter of 'becoming the best we can as individuals'---it's about being able to provide healthcare coverage for all Americans, no matter if they already have a disease. I think Americans generally have a big heart for being charitable, but charity begins at home and it's time that every American had access to health care and not worry "how the hell am I going to pay for this."
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  ex-nj-jw

  Now having lost power, they have launched a propaganda initiative, planned long ago, to cast doubt on the Democratic president's reforms - which had been vetted by the American people in the last election and endorsed by a significant margin of victory. Their vicious propaganda assault, aided by their previous purchase of their own media empire, is designed to derail healthcare for only one reason: Passage of a successful healthcare package would run President Obama's popularity up the chart and assure not only his reelection in 2012 but an unassailable majority in both houses of Congress post-2010.

  That is something the Republicans cannot, will not, allow to happen if they can help it; and they are doing everything in their power to prevent it. Bottom line: This is all about power.

  Willyloman hit the nail on the head! This is what it's really about.

  nj
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  coffee_black

  Mary,

  I agree with a lot of what you are saying....and I do believe there needs to be a safety net. The problem now is that most of the public and most of the politicians trying to pass this thing haven't even read it. They tried rushing it through before the details were even known, let alone understood. That is my biggest problem with it as well as trusting the politicians who have already messed up so much. I do not trust them. They have given me little reason to.

  Our police forces are local. They are not run by the Federal Government. And while public schools have some federal funding, they are mostly funded locally and are paid for by local real estate taxes. So we are not talking about similar things here. I seriously doubt that any American would want the Federal Government to run the police forces. That is something better left to local control. Fire depts. are also funded on the local level. Running a huge government program is far different than running a local school or fire department.

  Coffee
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  leavingwt

  USA Today: Why 'Reading the Bill' Won't Matter

  http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/our-opinion-healthy-debate.html
• 

  FlyingHighNow

  Most of us are for health care reform. Some that aren't are short sighted. Some are just greedy and mean. Oh yeah and way too many are gullible and will believe any terror tactic.
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  sammielee24

  Bottom line is it's a life and death matter. Those supporting the status quo sentence people to death - doesn't matter how they spin it. That's the mindset. You either believe your neighbour is equal to the same human value as you - or you don't. If you think they are sub-human and deserve less in life and are of less value as a person - then you support the status quo. It's that simple.

  Spinning it into a political level is just an excuse. Hiding behind the scary government is just an excuse because the government is there to pass laws whether you like it or not and a lot of those laws or processes interfere a lot more than healthcare would. Red herring. Smoke screen.

  When your own health insurance industry can sit in a governmental committee hearing and tell you that their sole reason for existence is to profit and in doing so, they offer bonuses to deny claims and refuse care, that they offer huge bonuses to the best and brightest doing this, when by their admittance they get sued and are forced to pay billions in lawsuits for killing people - and you still stand by and talk about the big bad scary government actually trying to interfere - I think it just simply speaks volumes about priority and a belief system that has somehow become twisted from what is morally and ethically right into what is totally selfserving. sammieswife.
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  beksbks

  Thanks LWT. I get very frustrated with, IMO, fools and lose sight of the real point here.

  Me personally, I have great insurance. I've had knee surgery, and of course the regular medical, dental and vision I need. My doc is great, I can even call him and get a call back to discuss things with him. But this is not the reality for everyone in this country. Why should any American lose teeth, go without glasses, or even worse wait to be treated for cancer or diabetes, because they have lost thier job, or thier job doesn't pay them enough? I would happily pay more in taxes to strengthen America from the inside. Instead, my taxes go to Haliburton, a wasteful, deadly, unnecessary war, subsidies for big oil, loopholes for the very rich, etc. etc. etc.

  From your link

  Shame at home.

  Since Tuesday, thousands of poor people have been lining up for free medical and dental care from a charitable group originally formed to serve remote Indian tribes in South America.

  This isn't happening in some isolated part of the Third World, though; it's in the shadow of Los Angeles, one of the biggest cities in the world's richest nation.

  Remote Area Medical, a volunteer group formed in 1985, has been conducting operations in the USA for years, mostly in rural areas such as Appalachia. This is RAM's first foray into a metropolitan area as big as Los Angeles, and, according to news reports, organizers were overwhelmed by the demand.

  The group always gets a heavy turnout when it runs its multiday free clinics in places such as rural southwestern Virginia, but the combination of a bad economy and California's fiscal problems made the turnout at The Forum stadium in Inglewood unusually large.

  That this happens in America — that so many people go without even routine medical care that would be automatic in most other major industrialized countries — is an embarrassment in a nation as wealthy as this one, and a compelling reason for attempting to overhaul the country's health insurance system.

  Most of the people waiting in line this week would get insurance coverage and access to doctors under the reform plan: Some would qualify for Medicaid, and those with low but somewhat better incomes would get subsidies to help them buy insurance.

  One thing that has become increasingly clear during the increasingly heated debate over health care reform is that millions of Americans are reasonably satisfied with their employer-provided insurance. They don't see the need for change.

  Perhaps they should talk to folks in L.A. County. Many of those in line told reporters they once had insurance but were laid off and lost it, or they couldn't afford to keep up the payments. Some still had insurance, but the deductibles or co-pays are so high they couldn't afford them when illness struck.

  Working people with good coverage are right to want to keep it, and they should be able to. They shouldn't be a layoff, a bad illness or a pre-existing condition away from having to join the people in line in L.A.
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  leavingwt

  Beks,

  You've brought up something I agree with. Better use of the tax money.

  Would you please take a stab at my question at the tob of page 9 of this thread? If passing the bill is a slam dunk for Democratic majorities, then why wouldn't they pass it, even if for purely selfish reasons? Does it come down to the Blue Dogs that will NOT get re-elected if they vote for it?

  Thanks,

  LWT