what is best evidence against noah's flood?......

by oompa 93 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    reniaa,

    Your complete avoidance of the facts concerning the MILLIONS of animals Noah & 7 other people would have had to collect, ID, organize, feed and provide habitat on the 'Ark' -- speaks volumes. You DON'T have a reasonable answer. According to the Bible story...this 'savior' job was given totally to those 8 people...NOT to angels or a god that would 'help' them. 'He' was to be the Great Destroyer -- remember ?

    Now...if you really think they had the time and capability to collect possibly 60,000,000 (m/f) animals, ID, feed and care for...go on to the next important step -- plant life! (remember the salt water)

    How many plants, shrubs, trees, fungi, molds, etc. do you think there are ? Are you really going to insist they could collect, store & keep alive all this stuff ?

    *sheesh*

  • Caedes
    Caedes
    I'd rather have faith in God than a random big bang :).....says reniaa
    haven't you stopped going to meetings cos you prefer a random big bang to jehovah?....which produced your 3 kids?

    I believe the popular phrase is 'oh... snap' Nice one, Ninja

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Reniaa, O' Reniiii-aa... ?

    I know you're not going to look up any actual facts about how many life forms those 8 uneducated people had to collect & keep alive on The Ark for a year & a half. You prefer to believe in magic. Fine.

    You like to be spoon fed, so, I'll help you eat, K? Take a gander at the number of plant life forms that have been discovered -- and how long it took educated people to do it.

    Enjoy:

    Strange News

    Greatest Mysteries: How Many Species Exist on Earth?

    By Andrea Thompson, Staff Writer

    posted: 03 August 2007 09:18 am ET

    Editor's Note: We asked several scientists from various fields what they thought were the greatest mysteries today, and then we added a few that were on our minds, too. This article is one of 15 in LiveScience's "Greatest Mysteries" series running each weekday.

    The prospect of discovering little green men on other planets has long captured our imaginations, but many scientists are just as excited about finding new life forms in our own backyard.

    Though humans have shared the planet with millions of other creatures for thousands of years, we know surprisingly little about our neighbors—we don’t even know exactly how many flora and fauna call Earth home.

    The National Science Foundation’s “Tree of Life” project estimates that there could be anywhere from 5 million to 100 million species on the planet, but science has only identified about 2 million.
    “We’ve only touched the surface of understanding animal life,” said entomologist Brian Fisher of the California Academy of Sciences. “We’ve discovered just 10 percent of all living things on this planet.”

    Environmental index

    Taking an exact count of Earth’s creatures may not seem like the most important task, but taxonomy, the science of discovering, describing and categorizing living things, is “the foundation for understanding life on this planet,” Fisher said.

    Knowing just who we share the planet with is of particular concern now because global warming, deforestation and other signs of human development are threatening many species, which may be essential to the functioning of ecosystems or may have inherent value in terms of developing medicines or other products.

    As Fisher puts it, knowing what kind and how much life is out there could make society more “bio-literate”—we would better understand the impacts that human activities have on other living things.

    “We could have kind of a Dow Jones index of the environment,” Fisher said.

    No simple answer

    Though taxonomists have been cataloguing plants and animals for more than 250 years, they still have no exact answer to the question, “How many species are on Earth?”

    “It’s a very simple question, but we have no simple answer,” Fisher said.

    One of the reasons we can’t get an accurate count is that the bulk of the things that have yet to be discovered and described are in the realm of the very small: insects, bacteria and other microbes.

    “We’ve done a pretty good job of categorizing from the size of a fly up,” but anything below that is far less known, said Joel Cracraft of the American Museum of Natural History in New York.

    Another part of the problem is that the tradition of taxonomy has been confined to the developed world for the bulk of its existence, leaving out the enormous diversity of much of the southern hemisphere, which is less developed on average.

    “Species aren’t equally distributed across the Earth; they have these hotspots,” Fisher said.

    For example, says AMNH entomologist Randall Schuh, as of 2003 there are about 2,000 known plant-eating bug species in North America, but only 200 in Australia, while the sampling of Australia’s plant diversity that Schuh has done since then suggests that there could be as many as 3,000 plant-eating bug species in Australia.

    Complicating the matter are “cryptic” species, which look the same to the human eye, but genetically are quite different, making them that much harder for scientists to classify.
    “When we go out in nature and we see individual organisms, they don’t wear little name tags, they don’t tell us what they are,” Schuh said. (Rabbit notes: genetic testing is kind of a 'new' thing)New tools

    But taxonomists now have new tools such as DNA sequencing that are making distinguishing one species from another, particularly “cryptic species” and smaller creatures, much easier.

    “We’re going to find more and more things through these tools, there’s no doubt about it,” Schuh said.

    Biologists are also combining their knowledge in projects such as the “Tree of Life,” the bug-focused Planetary Biodiversity Inventory co-headed by Schuh and the Census for Marine Life (a network of researchers in more than 70 nations engaged in a 10-year initiative to assess the diversity and abundance of marine life), all of which are intended to identify, catalogue and connect lineages of Earth’s millions of species.

    “I think now we can, if we put some resources behind it, address this exciting fact that 90 percent of life is yet to be discovered on the planet,” Fisher said.

  • B_Deserter
    B_Deserter

    How about the fact that a 400 foot long mesopotamian barge from the bronze age with no keel would have broken apart and sunk almost immediately. Even recent wooden boats with keels regularly leaked due to the pressures put on that size of a craft by the current. Wood planks regularly separate causing water to leak in. In large wooden vessels such as those water had to be constantly carried out or else the ship would sink. Take away the keel and you lose 90% of the vessel's stability. Then add the weight of every "kind" of animal, along with the food required to feed them for a year, as well as the resulting excrement, and Noah's ark wouldn't have held together for 40 seconds, let alone 40 days and 40 nights.

  • undercover
    undercover

    I saw a post on another thread today where Blondie cut and pasted an article where the Society pinpointed the time of Noah's Flood...2370BCE.

    Out of curiousity, I looked up info about the Great Pyramid.

    What does the Great Pyramid have to do with our little boat building buddy, Noah, you ask?

    Wellllll....

    According to the 5 minute online research that I did on the Pyramid, construction was finished around 2560BCE. Close to a couple hundred years before the Society's date for the flood.

    So while the flood raged for a year, causing mountains to push up where none existed before, the Great Pyramid lived up to its name. It was so great that not even a flood of divine magnitude and strength could destroy it.

    Okay...maybe they got the date wrong. Maybe it was built right after the flood...maybe even a few hundred years after. (yes, I know who's more likely to be wrong, but just play along)

    Even if it was built sometime after the flood, it still took a great army of men to build such a wonder.

    According to the wiki page I read, they estimated the work crews to be two gangs of 100,000 men each. They've recently unearthed grave sites of the many crews of people that lived and worked in the area during construction. Now, where there are 100,000 men working, you'll have a whole bunch more in wives and kids and in support systems (Edward G. Robinson in The Ten Commandments, "Yea, see, harvest your own straw for the bricks"), not to mention all the lucky souls who weren't part of the labor class.

    That's a lot of people to descend from 8 people in a short period of time. Noah and family must have been as busy as rabbits for quite some time... (I picture Dennis Hopper in True Romance, "...they did so much fuckin'...)

  • bohm
    bohm

    undercover: Thats easy to explain! they build the pyramid beneath the water - after all, the stones would weight more because of the water and be easier to handle. :-) . Its obviously doable - consider this bristlecone pine: http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQDF. It had more than 4,768 tree rings when it was cut down, so it would have been about 400 years old when the flood hit. by the way, bristlecone pine dont sprout tree rings in about 5% of the years so it would actually be quite a bit older.

    B_deserter: do you have any quotes from actual ship-builders about this type of hull? i know there are some pro-flood quotes floating around based on small-scale models, and i would like to see something quantitative on a full-scale ark.

  • darkl1ght3r
    darkl1ght3r

    undercover - "Okay...maybe they got the date wrong. Maybe it was built right after the flood...maybe even a few hundred years after."

    I know you were just saying that for the sake of argument but it brings up a good point: They didn't get the date wrong.

    The Egyptians lined the pyramids up with 'true north'. Meaning they found the axis of the earth's rotation in the sky (about roughly where the North Star is today, or the point in the sky that doesn't appear to move), this is called the 'celestial pole'. Here's the thing, when you measure the alignment of the pyramids TODAY to the celestial pole, they're all off by a slight angle. This is because the pole drifts, meaning that the axis of the earths rotation doesn't always point to the same spot. The amount of the drift is a known and measured phenomonon. When the amount and speed of drift is compared to the angle that the pyramids are alighned to, the earliest can be dated to as far back as 4500 years ago.

    Measuring the difference of angle between the pyramids matches the reigns of the kings buried in them. Meaning, as the celestial pole drifted, so did the angle that the Egyptians aligned the pyramid to. The fact that the angle drift correlates so precisely with the list of Kings and the lengths of their reigns means there is no mistake about the dates of the pyramids. There is a margin of error by a couple hundred years, but still it means the Egyptian culture existed before, during, and after Noah's Flood.

    For anyone who cares, here's the score so far:

    Science: 4,455,980,478,125,047

    Bible: 0

  • Rabbit
    Rabbit

    Dark1ight3r:

    There is a margin of error by a couple hundred years, but still it means the Egyptian culture existed before, during, and after Noah's Flood.

    For anyone who cares, here's the score so far:

    Science: 4,455,980,478,125,047

    Bible: 0

    I like the 'Egyptian' angle and have never heard about tracking the ages of the Pyramids that way. Cool.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    I love how easy reinaa gets to you guys! Is it because she's so cute?

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    hi bohm sorry about the delayed reply.

    Did you see the big bang? what proof do you have of the Big bang? Do you know with proof that time started with the big bang?

    The bible tells me there was a flood, I klnow we have a racial memories of both flood and God across the world.

    People like to deal in absolutes so the newest idea becomes a 'fact' rather than just a possibility unless proved otherwise.

    With both bible readers and those that prefer evolution they are both having to do the same thing. which is fit the evidence to their framework of belief.

    We have a planet that is nearly 70% covered in water so a flood is a reasonable belief in my book.

    Reniaa

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