Is the Governing Body the Only Channel of Communication between God and Men?

by UnDisfellowshipped 96 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Reniaa said:

    back to your point we judge those within the cong as directed outside we leave to Jesus.

    1 Corinthians 5:11-13 (New International Version)

    11 But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat.

    12 What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? 13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you." [a

    My reply: You posted this in reply to Mouthy asking you to:

    Please show me in scripture where Christ said to judge folks who dont believe men.

    Without even delving into the meaning of this verse it says to remove the wicked man from among yourselves. How does not trusting in man equate to wickedness?

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    • To isaacaustin (Post 1598): I let the Inspired Word speak for itself. Jesus is quoted, at Mathew 23:10 " YOUR Leader is one, the Christ [Jesus]".
    • To Yizuman (Post 1973): "[L]et God be found true" (Romans 3:4), even as all [of us] stumble many times (James 3:2).
    — Spike Tassel.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    To isaacaustin (Post 1598): I let the Inspired Word speak for itself. Jesus is quoted, at Mathew 23:10 " YOUR Leader is one, the Christ [Jesus]".

    Agreed comepltely. Jesus is our leader. No issue there.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Spike: "more freedom in silence while I look for the good in others."

    I assume that by "look for the good in others" you're referring to enjoying the sight of the coming slaughter of 6 billion innocent, mostly unwarned people, and mostly children?

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    If it's all that I would suggest watching snuff videos to desensitize yourself Spike

    Josie

  • Spike Tassel
    Spike Tassel

    to isaacaustin (Post 1606) re not trusting in the direction of Christ's brothers being tantamount to wickedness:
    • "Then he [the Son of man, a.k.a.the king] will say, in turn, to those on his left, 'Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.' … Then he will answer them with the words, 'Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did not do it to one of the least of these ones [my brothers], YOU did not do it to me.' "— Matthew 25:41 … 46.
    — Spike Tassel.

  • jeeprube
    jeeprube

    As I expected our local JW apologist is unable to provide any proof that the GB are actually the Faithful and Discreet Slave. This is a critical point, because all faith in the WT springs from it.

    Most JW's take it on faith that the GB really are in some special relationship with Jehovah. It's only when they are challenged to really think about WHY they believe that does any chance of deprogramming occur. That's how I got out. I used to be Reniaa. Ten years ago I would troll around ex-JW sites and argue for hours with "apostates" about how correct the Wt was and how crazy they were. Eventually, and it took years, something clicked. The illogic of it all finally worked through the years of JW programming and I eventually had to fade.

    Reniaa, you really should take the advice of the GB and avoid us. Eventually the fog will clear for you. I understand you more than you may think, because I used to BE you......as many people here also once were.

    I read Reniaa's words with sadness and pity, but also with hope.

    By the way, if anyone around here used to hang around the Prodigy network in the late 90's and remembers sonofobed.......

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    For Spike:

    Matthew 7
    Judging Others
    1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

    3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

    6 "Do not give dogs what is sacred; do not throw your pearls to pigs. If you do, they may trample them under their feet, and then turn and tear you to pieces.

    Ask, Seek, Knock
    7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

    9 "Which of you, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him! 12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

    The Narrow and Wide Gates
    13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
    A Tree and Its Fruit
    15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    The Wise and Foolish Builders
    24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. 25 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. 26 But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. 27 The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash."

    28 When Jesus had finished saying these things, the crowds were amazed at his teaching, 29 because he taught as one who had authority, and not as their teachers of the law.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    to isaacaustin (Post 1606) re not trusting in the direction of Christ's brothers being tantamount to wickedness:
    • "Then he [the Son of man, a.k.a.the king] will say, in turn, to those on his left, 'Be on YOUR way from me, YOU who have been cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the Devil and his angels.' … Then he will answer them with the words, 'Truly I say to YOU, To the extent that YOU did not do it to one of the least of these ones [my brothers], YOU did not do it to me.' "— Matthew 25:41 … 46.

    My reply:

    Except Spike, the GB has shown themselves to be anything but Christ's brothers....among many other things, their repeated false prophecies disqualifying them from this role.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Reniaa said: "Paul and the appostles also took these to mean..."

    Don't you mean Paul or the apostles? It seems that Paul had a change of heart about following the apostles.

    One example is very clear to any right-hearted Bible reader. After the apostles and elders in Jerusalem gave the direction, "keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols," (Acts 15:29) Paul begins speaking a NEW message just a couple of years later. In 1 Corinthians, Paul no longer says "abstain", he now talks about idolatrous food as being a "conscience" matter. Rather than reinforcing the message to carefully avoid food offered to pagan gods, Paul now says, "keep eating, making no inquiry."(1 Corinthians 10:25)

    Not only does Paul flip the bird to the apostles in that letter, how does Paul describe the consciences of those who would obediently abstain from things sacrificed to idols? He says, "their conscience that is weak"(1 Corinthians 8:12). He even resorts to name-calling! Not only is their conscience weak, he makes it a personality flaw by saying, "that one who is weak"(1 Corinthians 8:10). Ah, so Paul refers to those who would be obedient to apostolic direction as weaklings.

    So really, was Paul or were the apostles the "only" channel of communication in the first century?

    Oh, and to re-hijack this thread, wasn't circumcision originally an Egyptian practice that didn't separate the Israelites from those "pagans"?

    B the X

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