by reniaa 347 Replies latest jw friends
Reniaa:
Mr majestic Paul liberated them from their former religion and replaced it with the new covenant what do you replace it with?
Reniaa
My reply: Except the Wt is not the old covenant. It is not, nor was it ever from God as the old covenant was. But, empowering one to think for themself enables them to possibly come into the new covenant. A JW stuck in the org can not do that. the New Covenant does not even apply to most JWs, per their own beleif, right Reniaa? LOL
sacoltin do you think then Jesus can only have one name did he die between being 'the word' and Jesus?
you are playing semantics you know we think michael is just another name he went by and that we think Jesus rose in spirit.
REniaa
Post 1406 of 1406 Since 3/11/2008 | sacoltin do you think then Jesus can only have one name did he die between being 'the word' and Jesus? you are playing semantics you know we think michael is just another name he went by and that we think Jesus rose in spirit. REniaa |
Jesus rose in spirit- another Wt fable. LOL ANd if Jesus was Michael you would exepct at least one, one, direct reference tellin us so.
Reniaa, why do oyu enjoy making your stupid comments just to get refuted and made to look stupid here? Was your childhood that bad? Were you neglected that bad? You actually enjoy making yourself look stupid here just for the attention. You are sad indeed.
Back to the topic on the OP:
It's all a matter of perspective, isn't it?
For the 1st century Jews, Saul was the good guy, Paul was the Apostate.
For the 1st century Christians, Saul was the bad guy, Paul was the anointed apostle.
For reniaa, "apostate posters" are like Saul - trying to tear away true blievers from their faith.
But from the perspective of most others on this board, "apostate posters" are more like Paul - pointing out the inadequacies and bloodguilt of an organization that claims to worship Jehovah, and instead recommending (depending on the poster): atheism, Catholicism, fundamental Christianity, Baptist, etc.
So to answer the question, one would need to answer another question: Which organization does the modern-day Watchtower Society most resemble?
-- The rule-laden, tradition-bound, materially wealthy, appearance-over-all-else Jewish system as described in the NT?
-- Or the simple, materially poor, miracle-working, communal-living, largely illiterate 1st century Christian congregation?
Answer that question, and then you'll see whether "apostate posters" are more like Saul or Paul.
Spirits don't have flesh and bone.
First of all, this story of Thomas and the risen Christ was clearly remembered and retold, just as was Luke's story of Jesus' eating with the disciples after the resurrection, because it demonstrated that what the disciples saw was not an apparition or a ghost. Jesus invites Thomas to touch his hands and his side; it must in fact have been possible to do so. The early Christians obviously understood no better than we do how this was possible, what exactly the resurrection body of Jesus was or was like, but those who saw the risen Lord affirmed his reality in accounts which it was natural to tell and retell, passing them on to later generations of Christians.
But that was not Thomas' concern: in his first disbelief, he is not saying to his friends that what they saw was an apparition, he is saying in effect that what they saw wasn't Jesus. His demand is to see not proof of the reality of a ghost but proof that the man Jesus lives. The proof for which he asks is proof of continuity. His response to Jesus, 'My Lord and my God!' is not a statement of belief or faith, it is a cry of recognition. So the second reason it is important that Jesus can offer Thomas that proof is that it shows that the risen Lord was recognisably the same man who had been crucified on Calvary only a little over a week before, the same man with whom Thomas had lived as a friend and intimate for three years.
Edit: just wanted to shout out to sir82. Nicely put.
Next : Hi Renaia,
There's a reason I'm trying to take out charged words denoting either side as demonic or evil, or "destroying" people's faith. Not so much an attempt to "dehumanize" the organization and its leadership as you put it, but to de-mystify it. Its not the special and only channel of God that alot of people think it is. Its an entity on its own, thats not human but artificial. It coldly just does what it needs to do to keep existing.
I don't wish to destroy the individual old men on the GB. Just divest them of power over millions of people since they're obviously causing them harm. Maybe all of the GB are earnest in their faith. Then, I'm sure they're misguided if not deluded. I'm also certain some of the higher ups in the Org, especially in the writing and teaching departments are very aware of the facts on alot of lies and coverups so they are hypocrites.
We just want to take away their undue means of influence. If the Org can transform itself into something less cult-like, then I'd be happy for many current JWs. Then I wish them and any kind of leadership a long happy life.
I haven't read Reniaa's argument but I noticed she is using the NIV and not the NWT. Just wanted to give her props on that.
Mr majestic Paul liberated them from their former religion and replaced it with the new covenant what do you replace it with?
Reniaa
Hi Reniaa,
Well, not being a bible believer anymore, I no longer see things through the distorted perspective of faith. So I go one step better than replacing an ‘oppressive covenant’ with just another one.
I replace it with something beautiful and better than what any religious constitution can muster up, and that is the ability to see life through an open mind, untainted and uncoloured by faith or belief. But I do equate with the biblical characters of Paul and Jesus, especially Jesus who said of the people under the yoke of the Pharisees…
. 36 On seeing the crowds he felt pity for them, because they were skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd.
and I saw a lot of this whilst I was a JW. So knowing the harm that the society do I saw it as a kind of ‘moral’ obligation to try to help people out and see the truth about an institution that proves to be very harmful to many, and like Paul I put my efforts into helping people genuinely. The good thing is Reniaa is I have had much more success getting people out of a cult than I ever did in recruiting people into the cult. I can’t tell you how grateful I am of that fact.
So you can see why I equate more with the character of Paul. Helping people see the truth is one of the most wonderful things a person can do….
there we go Reniaa...you have the testimony of how and why i try to help others out of the org, as well as of Mr Majestic. I am a Bible beleiver, he is not...we are both motivated by love for people.
