Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • middleman
    middleman

    reniaa,

    Thank-you for your honesty...this is a start. I don't know who Janko is but thirdwitness, he's another story. I still remember him getting found out in lies on here in 2006. His UN website is full of them too. Even though key members here pointed out his incomplete research, it still took him 3 yearsto correct it and add the crucial scans, ones that would tell more of the actual story. He's still missing others that were brought to his attention years ago. Hardly a sincere researcher.

    Blessings...

  • besty
    besty
    So besty! translate a scripture contrary to it's original meaning so it's in-line with mainstream chrisitianity! interesting thought but nope.

    In which case I'm sure Janko and 3rdwitness can help you with the John 1:18 dilemma:

    New International Version: No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,who is at the Father's side, has made him known.

    New World Translation: No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom [position] with the Father is the one that has explained him.

    In line with your assertion that the NWT is correct, why did the <anonymous> Translation Committee see fit to translate John 1:18 with two different renderings of theos in the same verse?

    Also whilst you are asking Janko and 3rd Witness for help find out for me why the need to add the word [position] to the text.

    Lastly, ask them to help you understand why the NIV managed a much more elegant translation with 20% less words than the NWT.

  • glenster
    glenster

    What I have on it is mainly on pp.4 and 7 to 10 of the "GTJ Brooklyn" article
    at the next link (repeated on those pages of the "GTJ Brooklyn" article at the
    2nd link).
    http://gtw6437.tripod.com/index.html
    http://www.freewebs.com/glenster1/gtjbrooklynindex.htm

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Reniaa,

    Do you say that "a god" is the best way to translate John 1:1? Do you have any Greek scholars or experts who agree with you on that? Do you personally know Koine Greek? Have you read any Greek dictionaries/lexicons?

    Are you aware that the Reasoning Book (and other Watchtower publications) quotes a Greek expert who says that the best way to translate John 1:1 is to say that "the Word has the Nature of God"?

    Reasoning Book, Pages 416-417:

    "Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.” He suggests: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87)"

    Insight Book, Volume 2, Page 54:

    "Elaborating on this point, Philip B. Harner brought out that the grammatical construction in John 1:1 involves an anarthrous predicate, that is, a predicate noun without the definite article “the,” preceding the verb, which construction is primarily qualitative in meaning and indicates that “the logos has the nature of theos.” He further stated: “In John 1:1 I think that the qualitative force of the predicate is so prominent that the noun [the·os´] cannot be regarded as definite.” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87)"

    The Watchtower, August 15th, 1984 Issue, Page 30:

    "In the Journal of Biblical Literature (Volume 92, 1973), Philip P. Harner writes: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” "

    -----------------

    My question to you, Reniaa, is this: What does it mean if John 1:1 actually means that "The Logos has the SAME Nature as God"?

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Reniaa,

    Have you seen my new thread about Unitarianism (the belief that only The Father is Almighty God, and Jesus is His first creation)?

    Check it out and let me know what you think: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/176664/1/The-Case-for-Unitarianism

  • besty
    besty

    undisfellowshipped - maybe that post above deserves a PM to reniaa? <runs for cover>

  • booby
    booby

    Reniaa, if nothing else playing ping pong with you is fun. Much of what I have said is just to "play" with you, It doesn't matter what I or others would say pro trinity you will bring it down. I am quite sure if I were to insist that coal is black you would find a reference somewhere showing that they mine coal that is or appears to be white. As we know the word trinity is not found in the bible, and yet you try your best to prove the trinity is false. There are a number of treatises stating what the trinity doctrine really is, many religlions having their own twist, In each case you display the real motive is to support the (truth, society, Jehovah's witnesses, faithful and discreet slave, and finally governing body). I know this point is way off topic, but how did we go from the early days of a faithful and discreet slave made up of all those of the annointed alive today to a governing body of nine men, not only making no effort to reference the rest of the annointed but even today suggesting many must not be genuine because the number is going up instead of down. Interesting too is the fact that most of these annointed governing body members hail from after the use to be cut off date of 1935 (do you think maybe that is why the change in understanding?) Anyway my challlenge to you is to read Watchtower 56 9/1 pp. 530-531 pars. 16-18. Especially I would like you to forget the trinity doctrine for a minute and explain what it says in paragraph 18.

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Besty, good idea! I sent the PM. (now, I'm running for cover, LOL)

  • UnDisfellowshipped
    UnDisfellowshipped

    Reniaa,

    You are correct when you say that there are many so-called gods. Paul taught this clearly in 1 Cor. 8:6.

    However, Paul then separates The Father AND The Son from being in the "so-called gods" class, and he says that for Christians, there is Only One God and Only One Lord.

    Isaiah Chapters 40-50 clearly teach that there is only One True God by Nature.

    John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, and Philippians 2:6 clearly teach that Jesus has the NATURE OF GOD.

    So, does Jesus have the Nature of God?

    How many Gods by Nature are in existence according to the Book of Isaiah? One or Two?

    Is Jesus a True God by Nature, or a false god?

    How many Gods did the Apostle Thomas serve? (John 20:28)

  • besty
    besty

    this is getting awkward for Reniaa - and I'm an weak agnostic :-)

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