Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  booby

  lol i'll have a listen but not sure I can wade through an hour of it.

  Reniaa

  you make it sound like this is a personal invite for you to listen and see if it has validity. I am sure no one cares a whit if you comment or not since you will twist to your liking. The guy was simply making the point that the way first born is use d in scripture needs careful consideration.I see you listening always with the motive to create an argument to reply with. For once just listen with the sole objective of seeing if you can grasp what the other person is actually saying
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  reniaa

  booby I was personally invited to watch this by the original poster on another thread who wanted my thought on this video.

  and I am going to keep listening but I do not agree with trinity and I will express this if I think he has misrepresented scripture as in the case of firstborn one, I just listened to 4, he's still insisting firstborn means pre-eminent one in the case of Jesus by virtue of Jeremiah which is wrong I wonder if he himself knows about the blessing that was given to ephraim instead of mennesah. but anyway I checked it in dictionaries there is no justifiation for thinking firstborn means pre-eminent or context to show firstborn of creation isn't actually firstborn of creation in fact the context would make it a literal firstborn there.
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  reniaa

  just watched 5 his way of dealing with proverbs 8 is to say that it is not dealing with Jesus, that wisdom is just wisdom. /sigh

  1 Corinthians 1:24 (New International Version) 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.

  proverbs 8 is a beautiful scripture that is backed up as talking on Jesus because it is reflected in the greek scriptures.

  Proverbs 8:12-36 (New International Version)

  12 "I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence; I possess knowledge and discretion. 13 To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech. 14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine; I have understanding and power. 15 By me kings reign and rulers make laws that are just; 16 by me princes govern, and all nobles who rule on earth. [a] 17 I love those who love me, and those who seek me find me. 18 With me are riches and honor, enduring wealth and prosperity. 19 My fruit is better than fine gold; what I yield surpasses choice silver. 20 I walk in the way of righteousness, along the paths of justice, 21 bestowing wealth on those who love me and making their treasuries full. 22 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, [b] , [c] before his deeds of old; 23 I was appointed [d] from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began. 24 When there were no oceans, I was given birth, when there were no springs abounding with water; 25 before the mountains were settled in place, before the hills, I was given birth, 26 before he made the earth or its fields or any of the dust of the world. 27 I was there when he set the heavens in place, when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep, 28 when he established the clouds above and fixed securely the fountains of the deep, 29 when he gave the sea its boundary so the waters would not overstep his command, and when he marked out the foundations of the earth. 30 Then I was the craftsman at his side. I was filled with delight day after day, rejoicing always in his presence, 31 rejoicing in his whole world and delighting in mankind. 32 "Now then, my sons, listen to me; blessed are those who keep my ways. 33 Listen to my instruction and be wise; do not ignore it. 34 Blessed is the man who listens to me, watching daily at my doors, waiting at my doorway. 35 For whoever finds me finds life and receives favor from the LORD. 36 But whoever fails to find me harms himself; all who hate me love death."

  john 1:1 says he was with God from the beginning other scriptures say jesus is our way to life note verse 35 of proverbs, It is sad if the only way to deal with the fact that this verse clearly backs up only begotten, and firstborn as being literal by showing jesus was born from God as it says in verse 25 is to deny it is talking about Jesus well I think he has lost a beautiful scripture to Jesus.
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  choosing life

  He has a valid point with Col. 1:15-18. Two translations of the Bible use this word. The King James Version states in vs. 18 "that in all things he might have the preeminence." The Revised Standard Version states in vs. 18 "that in everything he might be preeminent."

  The dictionary defines preeminence as "surpassing all others". I did not know about the two contradicting verses where one said Manasseh was the firstborn and another said that Ephraim was the firstborn.

  Does anyone know the explanation the witnesses would give for this?
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  reniaa

  number 7 he played the isaiah says only one God card so john 1:1 must be god not a god, ignoring the grammer that has been corrected to show this is rightly "a god"

  I'm begining to doubt now that these are real Jehovah's witnesses they are feeding him his lines he has allsorts of publications at hand for this supposedly on the spot trinitarian discusion and OLD Jw publications too. He is shutting them down before they can show him scriptures like this one.

  1 Corinthians 8:5-6 (New International Version)

  5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords"), 6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

  that show that he accepts that there can be gods lesser to him and supposed gods but he is THE GOD

  Exodus 7:1 (King James Version)

  1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.

  2 Corinthians 4:4 (New International Version)

  4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

  the bible allows for a lesser god in all the examples above and so with the correct grammer in John 1:1 is not a contradiction but a again recognition that you can be godlike and even called a god as moses was but that doesn't make you The God.

  he was weak because he had to deny grammer to prove his point of view.
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  reniaa

  choosing life chek page one of this thread the bible itself explains it.
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  John Doe

  number 7 he played the isaiah says only one God card so john 1:1 must be god not a god, ignoring the grammer that has been corrected to show this is rightly "a god"

  I'm begining to doubt now that these are real Jehovah's witnesses they are feeding him his lines he has allsorts of publications at hand for this supposedly on the spot trinitarian discusion and OLD Jw publications too. He is shutting them down before they can show him scriptures like this one.

  He addressed the fact that other places in the Bible say there is more than one god. The point you seem to be missing, that he repeatedly made, is that Isaiah directly gives the words of Jehovah. So, when Jehovah says there is only one god, that's the way it is, regardless of what other bible writers have said or meant.
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  booby

  reniaa is jesus "a" god or an archangel?
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  John Doe

  he was weak because he had to deny grammer to prove his point of view.

  Have you gotten to the last videos where he points out specific exampls from the WTB&TS where they have translated one identitcal word two different ways in order to avoid the legitimate translation that Jesus is Jehovah? You don't have a leg to stand on in this regard.
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  choosing life

  Two translation connect Jesus being the firstborn with his being preeminent. So, I still think the man has a point. There can be only one TRUE God, but many false.

  I may be a god to my dog, but I am not the TRUE God.