Must see video on Youtube where a JW is clearly defeated on the trinity subject...

by Tuesday 347 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday
    When watching the videos, one thing is painfully obvious: The average JW does not understand the Trinity doctrine, as preached and believed by mainstream Christianity.

    This is true, it seems most know enough about the fringe beliefs to muster a refutation to those who don't know much about it either. However it pretty clear when challenged by someone who has studied it, it's a pretty simple descimation.

    The one thing that shocked me is that when he brought up Abraham eating with Jehovah, the JW didn't respond that Abraham was actually having dinner with an angel. That's probably what he came up with next.

  • insearchoftruth
    insearchoftruth

    I am looking forward to watching this....anything that Tuesday and LWT speak so highly of has to be worth watching!

  • sacolton
    sacolton

    It's kinda like JWs are color blind at birth. They are shown the color BLUE and taught that it's actually GREEN. They associate only with those who see BLUE as GREEN. Once in the real world, they try convience others that BLUE is GREEN and then shown that, in fact, it isn't - they attack and get defensive.

  • poppers
    poppers

    I just finished watching the whole thing; very interesting. He treated them with respect and didn't allow them to control how their encounter unfolded. I certainly learned something. I don't know how any JW could not be swayed by his presentation.

  • booby
    booby

    I did not watch the whole thing but was impressed with what I did watch. However we have to acknowledge here that the witness was a real dumbass. Not that many could do better with this gentleman, but most would have the sense to pull the "I got people waitin in the car" or whatever other excuse to get the hell out of there. After all Jehovah (the governing body) said "Go preach the good news door to door" not go get you ass whooped and stay long enough to be totally embarassed.

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday
    I did not watch the whole thing but was impressed with what I did watch. However we have to acknowledge here that the witness was a real dumbass. Not that many could do better with this gentleman, but most would have the sense to pull the "I got people waitin in the car" or whatever other excuse to get the hell out of there. After all Jehovah (the governing body) said "Go preach the good news door to door" not go get you ass whooped and stay long enough to be totally embarassed.

    I thought he did about as well as any JW would do in the situation, he was just COMPLETELY outgunned. The man speaking gave him several opportunities to leave and said several times "well I don't want to keep you here if you've got somewhere to go". Given the messages I get from people, how many people that have left due to my videos and so forth I was starting to think I was close to a great reasoner on all things JW related, after watching this I am completely humbled to see just how superior this man's knowlege is to my own.

    I'd love to see if the man returned with some elders and see that on tape, but the chances of that are pretty nil.

  • Awakened at Gilead
    Awakened at Gilead

    sacolton.. must have something to do with that green bible we used to use....

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    lol i'll have a listen but not sure I can wade through an hour of it.

  • Tuesday
    Tuesday

    Once you start watching it kind of flies by, if you're into hearing people discuss finer points of the bible. Personally I'm of the mind that every religious belief has it's foundation in scripture, hence why I found this so interesting because to me this proved without a shadow of a doubt that the Trinity has just as much biblical backing as any JW teaching.

  • reniaa
    reniaa

    just watched first three and here are my thoughts so far...

    i listen to firstborn argument he tricked them but they were undone by lack of bible knowledge on that one.

    Genesis 48:13-20 (New International Version)

    13 And Joseph took both of them, Ephraim on his right toward Israel's left hand and Manasseh on his left toward Israel's right hand, and brought them close to him. 14 But Israel reached out his right hand and put it on Ephraim's head, though he was the younger, and crossing his arms, he put his left hand on Manasseh's head, even though Manasseh was the firstborn.

    15 Then he blessed Joseph and said,
    "May the God before whom my fathers
    Abraham and Isaac walked,
    the God who has been my shepherd
    all my life to this day,

    16 the Angel who has delivered me from all harm
    —may he bless these boys.
    May they be called by my name
    and the names of my fathers Abraham and Isaac,
    and may they increase greatly
    upon the earth."

    17 When Joseph saw his father placing his right hand on Ephraim's head he was displeased; so he took hold of his father's hand to move it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head. 18 Joseph said to him, "No, my father, this one is the firstborn; put your right hand on his head."

    19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He too will become a people, and he too will become great. Nevertheless, his younger brother will be greater than he, and his descendants will become a group of nations." 20 He blessed them that day and said,
    "In your [a] name will Israel pronounce this blessing:
    'May God make you like Ephraim and Manasseh.' "
    So he put Ephraim ahead of Manasseh.

    ephraim got the firstborn blessing instead of the rightful firstborn menessah which is acknowledge by Jehovah in Jeremiah.

    So basically firstborn does mean firstborn but in this case the younger son was given the blessing for firstborn and Jehovah stood by that acknowledgement. the guys uses this eroneously to make a case that firstborn doesn't mean firstborn which is silly.

    there is no context to show that Jesus is not the firstborn in a literal sense of Jehovah. he tries to say Jesus created ALL therefore he couldn't be created but the word ALL is not everything the use of ALL is used to apply to a number of things and not the one who deals with the all.

    You can see this in another scripture,

    1 Corinthians 15:26-28 (New Living Translation)

    26 And the last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For the Scriptures say, “God has put all things under his authority.” [a] (Of course, when it says “all things are under his authority,” that does not include God himself, who gave Christ his authority.) 28 Then, when all things are under his authority, the Son will put himself under God’s authority, so that God, who gave his Son authority over all things, will be utterly supreme over everything everywhere.

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