I commented about apostates today at the meeting

by cognac 82 Replies latest jw friends

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    firstly gb do not claim inspiration only spirit guidance! out of context wt's are not proof why not show the whole article un-edited please in context. I do not have a wt disc so do not have time to check up these quotes from wt's that anti-witnesses always drag up.

    My reply: The GB has claimed many times in the past to be inspired...then they waffle to spirit-directed when called on their errors. They want it both ways, and claim "hey we are just a bunch of imperfect men doing our best...stop picking on us.."- while pointing their fingers haughtily at others. We are not anti-witness...we are anti-WT and everything that cult stands for.

    they do claim the authority of leadership which is biblically alowed for the church of God.

    My reply: They go well beyond that in claiming to be God's sole channel of truth, indispensible for salvation.

    HI isaac I see where your getting at now, you are using one scripture to qualify another hmmm that is not how it works. The 'obey leaders' scripture is a stand alone one that clearly shows that they have authority of leadership that isn't limited to just teachings.

    My reply: Not at all renia. Paul in verse 7 gave qualifying parameters before he said to obey your leaders. He clearly, plainly says that it is so long as the teachings are the word of God. Someone with a second grade education can see that. Again, it says "Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith." - WHO SPOKE THE WORD OF GOD TO YOU...Obedience is plainly relative to that. Jesus did not obey the Jewish authorities where they did not follow the word of God. SOunds like you think Paul is contradicting him.

    If what you said is correct paul telling women to keep heads covered is unbiblical. that isn't about teaching but a practicality in the life of being christian among many other things paul says.

    To those that say all christendom is part of Jesus's body and will be acceptable sorry this is not biblical.

    My reply: It is not what organization you are registered in reniaa...It is who you are and who you follow- that being Jesus. Matthew 7:21
    "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

    Matthew 7:13-23 (New International Version)

    13 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14 But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it. 15 "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

    21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23 Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

    this in context this is showing the qualification is doing the will of Jesus's father that makes them acceptible to Jesus not just calling on his name!

    My reply: correct

    or is Jesus lying here?

    My reply: You seem to think so. It is about knowing and having a relationship with Jesus. Not registration and obedience to an organization and their man-made rules and false prophecies.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    HI isaac I see where your getting at now, you are using one scripture to qualify another hmmm that is not how it works. The 'obey leaders' scripture is a stand alone one that clearly shows that they have authority of leadership that isn't limited to just teachings.

    LOL So Reniaa does not beleive Scripture defines scripture. Just like the WT- they use it as a dictionary, looking for any sort of phrase to use as a proof text for their rules...ignoring all other verses bearing light on the context. Thanks for revealing that reniaa..

  • poppers
    poppers

    Reniaa - again, I ask you to view the link I provided above and see if you still hold to the same view. It's rather long, but it is quite interesting and very illuminating. Are you willing to at least look at it rather than dismiss it out of hand?

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Renaii:

    Hebrews 13:17
    Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

    this one scripture shows we have to obey our leaders, so anyone saying to me you follow the wt are just lying, JW's follow the leaders as directed by God and his son for the flock to do until Jesus returns becasue they are the leaders of the religion I consider most biblically correct at this time. They will beocme leaders after armageddon in heaven so people will still be under the authority of leadership.

    If I'm not correct in your eyes show me a scripture which allows us to disobey leaders and create divisions by our actions! I challenge you!

    Why do you suppose King James revised the 'bible"? Read a little history, Renaii, and educate yourself.

    Royalty got sick and tired of taking orders from the church. King James revised the bible to add scripture to portray the "divine right of kings". His posture was that if the king was harsh, it was because the people needed that and that god himself had ordained the king as your overseer. The king was not required to account to his subjects; he was only required to answer to god.

    And, as god himself had appointed the king, he could do no wrong. (I think Bush played this card, too.)

    Same sort of mindset with the WT leadership.

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Renaii: "rubbish! I can think anything I like (although i'm still answerable to God and Jesus for my thoughts)"

    What? Do you not know that you cannot serve two masters?

  • cameo-d
    cameo-d

    Hoping4change:

    "I am wondering - was Jesus an apostate? Didn't he created divisions amongst his Jewish brethren?"

    Jesus had no intention of starting a new religion. That was Paul's doing. Paul created christianity. All this from a man who never even knew Jesus!

    Was Jesus an apostate? YES. That's what got him killed. He spoke out against the deception of religion. He alerted people to the manipulation and the lies. This is what he attempted to free them from.

    When he turned over the table of the money changers, this is what really angered those in power. There was a power circle between the merchants, the scribes, and the pharisees. Not all of these people were bad, but there was a "network of corruption" within the ranks. It was a sweet money making deal for the powerful people in control. They didn't really care so much what Jesus said until he started hurting their pocketbooks. Then, they were determined to silence him!

    Some say that Jesus had a mission to free people from sin. Well, rightly, so. But you have to know who Sin was!

    Sin (Akkadian: Sîn, Suen; Sumerian: Nanna, "illuminator") is a Sumeriangod of the moon in Mesopotamian mythology. He is the son of Enlil and Ninlil. His sacred city was Ur.

    He was named Sin in Babylonia and Assyria, and was also worshipped in Harran. Sin had a beard made of lapis lazuli and rode on a winged bull

    Today, the word 'sin' has been given a different connotation.

  • trebor
    trebor

    reinaa: "out of context wt's are not proof why not show the whole article un-edited please in context"

    It is not out of context. It was a point blank review statement. There are no contextual sentences before or after that point. Another review point/statement was made after and before it. See for yourself; left hand column on the page, near the center of the page. It is under the heading "Lessons for Us".

    Justify and convince yourself however it may please you. But seriously, think about it reinaa. Even if that statement was made with other surrounding statements, in what context would such a remark ever be acceptable? In what context would stating something as "become a part of the Bible" be appropriate?

    Even if you can think of such a scenario, it still does not apply here. Check the reference for yourself. Please do so...December 15, 2008 Watchtower, page 28, left column, near the center of the page.

  • mrsjones5
    mrsjones5

    "So the question here is not obeying leadership when in line with the words of Jesus, but rather if the WT is part of the body. Josie you broke that down well."

    Thank you. I agree with Sylvia also, I do not consider the bOrg to be part of the body of Christ. Their leaders have pushed Christ to the side and downgraded his importance while at the same time falsely elevating their own. Which I find to smack of being anti-Christ.

    Josie

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    "Thank you. I agree with Sylvia also, I do not consider the bOrg to be part of the body of Christ. Their leaders have pushed Christ to the side and downgraded his importance while at the same time falsely elevating their own. Which I find to smack of being anti-Christ" Well said Josie!..The WBT$ is absolutely Anti-Christ..I`ve said it before in other posts and threads......................OUTLAW

  • choosing life
    choosing life

    @ Tuesday, I watched the entire discussion. It was very illuminating. I like how Jim brought out that the WBTS was the true apostates.

    I am amazed at how long the jws allowed this to go on. I also wondered if the jws knew this was being taped and agreed to it? Jim did say once that the jw should be glad that the camera was not on him.

    There can be only one true God. He made that really clear. Cognac's statement about apostates was spot on.

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