I commented about apostates today at the meeting

by cognac 82 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Tuesday

  Hi Reniaa

  You said:

  courageous but not biblical, you were right in one respect difference of opinion biblically is allowed but it is what you do with that difference that makes you apostate.

  Romans 16:17

  I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.

  Good scriptures however you have to take the context into account. Why would Paul even mention cause divisions? Because he didn't want to see the church break into sects. So Cognac saying that an apostate is someone who tries to have people follow them she is actually correct, that's what an apostate is someone who disagrees but ALSO tries to get people to follow their line of thinking.

  Simple disagreeing does not make an apostate.

  1 Corinthians 1:10

  
  

  I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

  Philippians 4:2

  
  

  I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord.
• 

  cognac

  Hey everyone! It's late and I'll respond more tomorrow.

  But, to clarify what I meant... The word apostate only occurs twice in the original greek scriptures. It means to not agree with something. As a matter of fact, the apostle Paul was accused of being an apostate. The only time that was a problem was when the person tried to elevate themselves above god as brought out in Thess.

  That is why causing divisions was wrong - because the person causing the division was doing so in order to have people follow them instead of doing as they were taught.

  The BORG was the one not only acting as an apostate towards the scriptures, but they elevated themselves ABOVE GOD so as to have people follow them instead of God. Apostates towards the BORG are doing so not to have people follow them, but to shine light upon the very ones causing the divisions and trying to take the place of God.
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  cognac

  Cognac, I don't get the mags. Please tell me, what exactly did the paragraph say about apostates? I am just curious to know how much emphasis they will be putting on apostates now and twisting their bible verses into applying "the godly hate" toward us.

  You can find it on the thread below. Paragraph 15.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/176678/1/Blondies-Comments-You-Will-Not-Hear-at-the-06-07-09-WT-Study-JOB-NAME

  But didn't you just get out of trouble with them a little while ago?

  Yeah, I just can't help myself though...
• 

  caliber

  The BORG was the one not only acting as an apostate towards the scriptures, but they elevated themselves ABOVE GOD so as to have people follow them instead of God. Apostates towards the BORG are doing so not to have people follow them, but to shine light upon the very ones causing the divisions and trying to take the place of God. .. Cognac

  You make very good sense here !
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  Waffles

  Strain out that gnat, gulp down that camel Reniaa.
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  I quit!

  Reniaa. The problem with using those scriptures to make the arguement that we should all go along with the what the Watchower has to say is that you assume that the text sighted applies to the Watchtower and that the Watchtower speaks for God and has to be obeyed without question. Please remember that the evidence of Christ returning and appointing them as his spokesman is found only in their literature and no where else. You can't look up old newspaper articles and find one that reads: "Christ returns and selects the Watchtower to run things for him". I'm sure that there hundreds of small time spokesmen for God that also use these scriptures to claim authority over their flocks but they like the Watchtower need to prove that they are entitled to this kind of obedience. The history of the Watchtower Society is a history of flip flops and mistakes. Going along with them this year might be an entirely different position than it was a year earlier so why would it have been wrong to not agree with their previous position and say so? The Watchtower likes to make comments about the Pope's authority over Catholics yet they claim the same or greater for themselves over their followers.
• 

  boyzone

  The BORG was the one not only acting as an apostate towards the scriptures, but they elevated themselves ABOVE GOD so as to have people follow them instead of God. Apostates towards the BORG are doing so not to have people follow them, but to shine light upon the very ones causing the divisions and trying to take the place of God.

  Excellent comment Cognac, you hit the nail on the head with this.

  Reniaa, You are trying to defend an apostate organization. The WTBTS have apostasized from Christianity and set themselves up above God and demand people follow them under pain of disfellowshipping if they don't. So don't go picking at us for exposing them, look at what your defending first, then GET OUT OF HER!
• 

  cameo-d

  Cognac:

  The BORG was the one not only acting as an apostate towards the scriptures, but they elevated themselves ABOVE GOD so as to have people follow them instead of God.

  Apostates towards the BORG are doing so not to have people follow them, but to shine light upon the very ones causing the divisions and trying to take the place of God.

  well worded. Worth repeating.
• 

  passwordprotected

  Apostasy according the the WTS definition is rejecting your beliefs, opposing the organisation/Jehovah and rejecting the organisation. Check the Reasoning book.

  And guys, please don't let Reniaa hijack this thread.

  Well done, congnac.
• 

  JWdaughter

  Reniia, they warned of causing divisions in what THEY were taught by the apostles-not by what they were taught from a group of men 2000 years later who hold with NOTHING that was said by 'early church fathers' as the 'traditions' they were taught (both by mouth and by letter). The divisions here are set up by the WTS, a group of men who have set themselves above the avg. JW as having some special authority. The special authority that the Apostles and those they appointed had was that they were taught directly from Christ and his appointees, not some jumped up pseudo prophets 2000 years later.

  To agree in the Lord doesn't require that one leave their brain outside the WT parking lot, and the divisions they were speaking of were not some of the petty crap that goes on in the cong. And the scripture quoted-should not cause a division unless she was saying to go against that teaching by God.

  Do you think it better to follow any self appointed spiritual leader because they claim they were given the authority at some random point in history? Or do you think that sometimes we NEED to cause a division when there is a wrong teaching? Charles T. Russell obviously didn't mind causing division in his mileu. What about HIS spiritual leaders and congregation? He has caused a great division and there are further divisions off it it.