by Justitia Themis 129 Replies latest social current
Does the national law determine what is right and wrong? The national law in one major European country said it was OK to kill people of a particular group a few decades ago. Does the fact that it was legal mean it was not murder?
I don't know the answer to that question.
Keyser: When did this become about me? Did I shoot anyone?
You're the one who compared shooting abortion doctors with the use of deadly force to protect loved ones. If you condone one, but not the other, then such a comparison makes no logical sense. If you see any justification in shooting doctors who perform abortions, then have the courage to come out and say it. You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth. You are laboring to show a gray area when there is none.
Both men are "wrong" and both men are "right". Both are extreme actions and on far ends of the moral/ethical spectrum. The debate is deeply complicated.
What utter bullshit. The cold-blooded killing another human being is murder, and just plain wrong. There is no "right" in it, no matter what justification you believe there to be. It isn't complicated at all. And whether or not you view abortion as murder, and therefore, also, wrong, is quite beside the point. One murder does not negate the other.
The willingness of some pro-lifers to rationalize this man's actions speaks volumes as to how much value they really place on human life.
oops, double post.
keyser: Good to see you back. I never said I place great value on ALL life. Just that of innocents. I consider a fetus at 5 and half months that could survive out of the womb to be an innocent life. I understand not all agree but that is my opinion of when a life is a life. Legally it's a gray area in an abortion case it's at birth but if you hit a pregnant woman in my state (TX) and she miscaries you will be charged with murder of that fetus as a human life. So for those using the current law as your compass on this explain that? That being said my opinion is this Dr's life has less value than say that of a school teacher. Does that give the shooter the right to break that law and kill him, ABSOLUTLEY NOT. But if I have to choose to place a value on a life which we do as a society (the death penalty and organ donations) that's how I would decide. The shooter certainly will pay for his actions and is subject to law. Do I have to feel sorry for this Doctor being gone, nope not at all. This Doctor bragged about preforming over 60,000 abortions. Many on this board would say Hitler's life was less valuable than say Mother Theresa's as Hitler deliberately killed six million innocent victims. I would say none of you would shed a tear over Hitler's demise, but I will stop short of calling you hypocrits. I don't think that is necessary or productive.
but if you hit a pregnant woman in my state (TX) and she miscaries you will be charged with murder of that fetus as a human life.
Again, not a valid argument. It is viewed as a human life because the mother has already made the decision to bring the pregnancy to full-term. Any potential life that could've resulted has been nullified. But how I personally feel about abortion is irrelevant to this particular thread, and whether or not the killing of this doctor qualifies as murder. The morality of abortion is not the issue.
Forgive me if this is off-topic, but I hope the day will come when abortion is not needed. Perhaps through education, scientific advances and awareness we will find a better way. Abortion is awful and I think we can all agree on that.
OK, carry on.
What are you smoking? I am pro life and I never said the killer was justified because he isn't.
Ditto. Some here just love to paint with the broadest brush they have. Sometimes they even pack a paint roller.
It all goes back to when life begins.
Scientifically speaking, a unique human life begins at conception. This is indisputable. Opinions have nothing to do with that bare fact.
BTS
What's really fascinating from a psychological standpoint is how the libs on the board have started at least two threads regarding the death of an abortionist at the hands of a white Christian, yet not one has so much as mentioned the black Muslim that opened fire at an Army recruiting center, killed one, and wounded another on the same day as Tiller's demise.
BTS
So Dr. Tiller was murdered by someone who is pro-life So much for pro-life.
nj
What utter bullshit. The cold-blooded killing another human being is murder, and just plain wrong. There is no "right" in it, no matter what justification you believe there to be. It isn't complicated at all. And whether or not you view abortion as murder, and therefore, also, wrong, is quite beside the point. One murder does not negate the other.The willingness of some pro-lifers to rationalize this man's actions speaks volumes as to how much value they really place on human life.Nobody, as far as I can tell, is rationalizing a murder. You need to open your mind up and let some light in (or, shake the bullshit out of your own brains) and see that yes, it IS a complicated matter. You may be able to see only the black and white of it, but lots of people understand there are many gray areas pertaining to this issue and it should be debated until (like slavery) it is either abolished completely by our entire culture or accepted by our entire culture. That hasn't happened yet.
The fact that laws sometimes get passed because of a certain kind of moral/ethical climate existing in a society at a particular time in history does not negate the fact that some practices are so reprehensible to a large segment of the population that the debate HAS to be carried on till the practice is either culturally accepted or rejected, even if it's by the next generation.
Unfortunately, the murder of this particular abortionist is a catalyst for the continued debate. It opens up a cultural wound that has not been fully healed (put to rest) and won't be until our society knows or accepts completely the science and psychology of this issue.
