Are we equal...?

by DannyBear 118 Replies latest jw friends

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Has this guy fallen off his rocker?!!!!

    Neways, I'm sure he'll find some way to rationalize his 'logical' introduction of this into this thread.

    Hey Alan, why don't you try taking your head out of old Watchtowers and try seeing what it's like out here in reality for few moments.

    I hope the exodus starts soon!

    ONE....

    bigboi

    "it's like the one thing we all have in common is that we
    got played by a cult and a bunch of old men and no matter what it will
    always be a part of us no matter how much we distance ourselves from it"
    ~ Ghostquote

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    I think you get my point, DannyBear. But you're too proud to admit that it blows your 'theory' out of the water.

    AlanF

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Alan,

    Theory's, opinion's, view's, conclusions, whatever you want to call them, aside, you have just cemented and ratified everything in my post.

    For you to resort to this type of really to quote you 'dark' accusation, to try and uphold your take, is exactly my point. You apparently have no boundry you will not cross, to try and force your side of the issue, as the only reasonable conclusion.

    I now feel a little sorry for you, you have dug yourself into a hole so far, that you are willing to debase another's view, by assualting his character, even if your new found information were true, how would that libel uphold, your stand. Gross desperation is what I see.

    Danny

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    I've been around this bunch for the past four years, most of which were spent on the old H2O. It is only in the last year, in this forum, that I have seen this particular type of disagreement take place. On H2O, the only people who didn't appreciate Alan's posts and humor were the JWs he was demolishing. That includes Rick, who at the time was still defending the WTS, and thus you can understand his sniping comments to this day.

    I've been reading Farkel, Kent, AlanF, and others for years, and have gotten used to their in-your-face approach. I have disagreed publicly with this approach, and gotten into arguments with them about it. Finally I chose the live-and-let-live approach, figured that their way would be helpful for some JWs, and my way would be helpful for other JWs. Together, we could all make a difference, even if our approaches varied.

    This year, things have been different. Oh Farkel, Kent, and Alan are basically the same, if not writing the same amount of researched posts as they used to. But why should they? Why reinvent the wheel when you can find their excellent posts on the Web. But the personalities of these guys are the same as ever, if a bit abbreviated.

    What has changed as been suddenly a contingent of exJWs who have decided to attack them for their style, their approach. OK, this is fair, I suppose. I did this too, several years ago. If you don't like their style, it's free speech to say so. And these guys have responded to these new attacks as they responded to my own: they have argued back.

    Now in the old days, before so much had been said and done, they reasoned with me as they argued, explaining why they post the way they do. Now, several years later of the same-old stuff, they seem to be abbreviating their stuff the same way I do. This new contingent is leaping upon that to say, "See, these guys have no excuse for their behavior!" and the pile-on is commencing. Perhaps several old-timers who never dared to express their disagreement with these guys are suddenly now emboldened to join the pile-on.

    Not me. I'm not the type to attack the person instead of the message. I don't like Alan calling people "morons," although I understand why he does it. As I said, he has a method to his madness that varies from my own.

    What I don't understand is why this new contingent doesn't get the point. Vive la difference! If you don't like a style, don't use it yourself. Don't insist that everyone do things your way.

    In answer to the question in the thread title, Yes, we are all equals here as human beings. We are NOT equals in the amount of work we have put forth among the exJW community. Some have done more than others. Like men digging a ditch, while some work hard and others stand around and talk, although they are all equal as humans, they are not all equal in getting credit for digging the ditch. Jan, Norm, Kent, Alan, Farkel, HillaryStep, Maximus, Hawkaw, Silentlambs, LiberalElder, and others have been far busier digging the ditch of exJW efforts, and they deserve credit for what they have done. It doesn't make them better human beings. It doesn't mean you have to like the way they argue. It doesn't mean you have to like the language they use (ever listen to ditch-diggers?). It doesn't mean they are elite.

    It does mean that they deserve some credit for their past efforts. If in the present, or in the future, they make mistakes, they should be called on them. But if you just have a disagreement in style, well, that ain't gonna change, no matter how much you bark. We are who we are.

  • tyydyy
    tyydyy

    Alan,

    You have been shown over and over your elitist comments and you still refuse to acknowledge. Sounds like some JWs I know. I'm getting tired of going back to your threads and showing you proof. There is so much proof of your elitist attitude to choose from I get frozen with indecision about which to quote.

    So quit asking for proof. It's been done and you chose to just say that it was moronic without pointing out where the 'flaws' were. You have had your chance to refute the charges and you have failed.

    You have been weighed......... you have been measured......... and you have been found wanting.

    Accusing one of child molestation on this forum where so many feel strongly about that subject is inappropriate even though we all know you were "joking" . You sure have a great sense of humor.

    TimB

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Ps after your friend Dave's comments which you chose to ignore, your loss, I will give you the benefit of the doubt...and acknowledge your very sick attempt, at getting me to respond as you desired. This is what you in your debased and vile statement wanted me to say;

    Alan,

    Prove it.

    DB

    Now almighty Alan, you can then come back and say, that's right that's what I wanted you to say. And then ratify your false conclusions that I won't offer any proof. Man your predictable.

    I did not answer you requesting proof, because your statement was infamatory. Not to mention those who utilize such cop out's, are often very guilty of the accusation (as in your case, regarding statements of 'better poster's than other's) so why in the world would I answer 'prove it'...I already knew the answer.

    Danny

  • Simon
    Simon

    DannyBear said:

    Here on jw.com for any poster to even suggest that certain 'worthy', or 'accomplished ', tenured participants deserve special consideration, is restricting and trampling on other's free will and spirit. For an author to ascribe his works, as worthy of such recognition, is pure absurdity. Common sense, not to mention the vast diversity in thinking, should assure any writer, that not everyone will agree with his/her conclusion's on any given matter.

    There is also an attitude displayed by those who have adopted this course of 'power' and 'control', they believe that because they offer an answer or explanation for their particular stance, that anyone who does not accept their answer, as gospel, as the end of the matter, is thick, or unable to reason. Again the heighth of arrogance and conceit.

    Perfectly sensible to me.

    AlanF said:

    A chain of reasoning dies if its main premise is false. Your post, DannyBear, is largely wrongheaded because your main premise is false ...

    Your premise is false because no one I am aware of has suggested that anyone deserves special consideration, nor am I aware of anyone who has described his own works as worthy of special recognition.

    I'm not sure I understand ... is this basically agreeing that no one should assume their posts are more important (and that no one has) or saying that no one has (with the unspoken assumption that they are better even if they are not claimed to be)

    One is agreeing with DannyBear and one isn't.

    Could you put it clearly and plainly: Do you think some peoples posts and / or some posters are better or more important than others?

    Because AlanF claims:

    I think you get my point, DannyBear. But you're too proud to admit that it blows your 'theory' out of the water.
    I assume you are not agreeing with DannyBear and so are saying that people haven't claimed it but they are better.

    Also, AlanF said:

    DannyBear, I just found out that you spent five years in jail for child molestation. I'm going to spread that all around the Net and I'm going to hound you until you admit it.
    If this is the level of your 'argument' or proof of any superior intellect then I have news for you - people will probably think you are a grade A idiot as this sort of crap just makes you look stupid.
  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Seeker,

    H20 was H20, not the fondest of memories for me, so imo not a big loss.

    Now in the present, we have jw.com. This place is a joy to participate in. Why? because certain poster's are not allowed to run rampant over other's, even those nasty jw's that show up here. So when you elude to all that past work accomplished at H20, that is in fact THE PAST. Let move on to the present.

    It is the perogative of anyone here, within the limits set by Simon, to take exception to personal abuse, personal slights, perceived or intentional, no matter by what poster, no matter what previous accomplishments, no matter their historical manner in dealing with other's. Or style as you say. Some of the old timer's as you call them, have changed their style, to suit this venue, that is good.

    So H20 and the personalities there have absolutly nothing to do with how any one should be viewed or critiqued, here. It is what they say and do now, today that matter's.

    Overall I agree with what you presented, with the above exceptions.

    Thanks for your comments.

    Danny

  • Xena
    Xena
    What I don't understand is why this new contingent doesn't get the point. Vive la difference! If you don't like a style, don't use it yourself. Don't insist that everyone do things your way.

    I don't believe anyone is "insisting" some do things their way. The majority (I believe anyway) are advocating a certain type of behavior that is considered appropriate in any society. I believe our behaving in a civil manner respectful of others regardless of who they are is what sets us above the beasts of the field, don't you seeker?

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    Xena,

    I don't believe anyone is "insisting" some do things their way. The majority (I believe anyway) are advocating a certain type of behavior that is considered appropriate in any society. I believe our behaving in a civil manner respectful of others regardless of who they are is what sets us above the beasts of the field, don't you seeker?
    Well, no, I wouldn't go quite that general as to invoke the difference between the beasts of the field and us. There are a number of ways of getting a point across, depending on your audience. Sometimes the persuasive argument works, sometimes the empathetic shoulder works, and sometimes the whack on the side of the head works.

    I'm of the school that believes, yes, that the civil argument works best. Some of those old-timers think the whack on the side of the head works best. It's hard to argue with the results they have had with that method, and so I don't argue with it. I just choose my style and go my way.

    The "insisting" I was referring to is not literally forcing behavior to change. But these endless arguments, this insistence that they are wrong, is not going to accomplish much other than to get tempers flared and people to take sides. Would I like it if Alan didn't call people morons? Yes, I would. He knows that about me. But it is his right to use a method that he has had great success with, and I won't quibble. Who am I to say my way is the only right way?

    DannyBear, in his nice response to my post, talked about what these guys have done in the past as just the past, but I don't see it that way. As long as the Web searches yield their essays on Watchtower Observer, or Osarsif's site, or FreeMinds, or the many other excellent sites, their past work is very much yielding present results. To dismiss their efforts as saying it's only in the past is like saying what Ray Franz wrote isn't worth mentioning because he wrote it twenty years ago. Just as Franz deserves some credit for the results his words have had, Alan deserves credit for the results his words have had.

    I may not have liked the style that JanH used, and I told him so years ago, but I sure benefited from all that he wrote, and I told him that too. We don't have the same personalities, we don't have the same methods, and it just doesn't matter. As for the niceties of civil behavior, that's up to us to conform, and Simon to enforce as he sees fit. We can chide each other all we want, but we aren't going to change styles just because some don't care for it.

    No one style will ever please everybody, which means there will always be somebody pissed off.

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