This picture was created by myself on my computer , does that make me a god ?
Invisible Things of Him... are Clearly Seen, Being Understood by the Things That are Made
by Perry 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Homerovah the Almighty
If God is the unknown does it make sense to ask God for direction and guidance in are lives ?
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Perry
Not that long ago I tried asking, sincerely and humbly, for God to make himself known to me if he existed.
This was at the apex of my JW-based-faith crisis...What did I do wrong? Is there a magic phrase or something
Inkling,
That's awesome. I will give you my opinion on why you did not get a breakthrough with God.
he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him . Heb. 11: 6
Based on your prayer, I don't think you met the first criteria, or even the second for that matter. Apparently, God feels that there is enough evidence (not proof mind you) to infer his existence. The bar is pretty low. I think he'd quite happy with the term Singularity as a starting point. The second criteria is that he expects you to EXPECT a reward for seeking him. If someone doesn't expect a reward, did they ever really want it?
It's interesting that, on both points belief is involved. It is through the agency of belief, not works that God humbles himself and partners with us in our destiny. It is on this basis that the instrument of CHOICE is preserved, so that in a very real sense man chooses his own destiny. Think about that one for a moment.
You mentioned something about your JW-based-faith in your post. Just as a reminder of some of the fundamentals of that "faith":
1. Denies that there will be a judgment for individuals after they die:
...it is appointed unto menonce to die, but after this the judgment:-Hebrews 9: 27
And I saw a great white throne ...And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; ... and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.-Rev. 20: 11-13
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. - Matthew 12:36
2. Denies that Jesus is the sole Mediator between God and Man
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the manChristJesus
1 Tim. 2: 5
3. Would never pray to Jesus
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit. -
May I tell you that I believe it obvious that the reason for the existence of the Watchtower is to separate people from Jesus? These 3 points (I have listed over 30 on other posts) are identical to the position of an atheist. The transition from JW to atheist is the easiest of all. We were already there on many, many points.
So, in addition to the two points God identifies in Hebrews 11, the object of your requests are essential. God says you have to go through a Mediator, to make peace. It's OK because he is both Just (God) and the Justifier (Mediator)
that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. -Rom. 3: 26
No one will be in hell that doesn't choose to go there:
"And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life" - John 5:40
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name [Jesus] - John 1:12
I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold , but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber... Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. - John 10: 1-7
I believe that if you ask God for the belief needed for the Hebrews 11 requirement, and if you sincerely DIRECT your prayer directly at Jesus the Mediator (the door), it is impossible for God to not answer you. God may not answer you (provide proof of his existence) except when he saves you for all eternity. He is simply not interested in having a relationship with a corpse. So, be ready for that too.
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Homerovah the Almighty
He that indulges into the thinking, ignorance and writings of primitive men, create an immoral injustice toward modern humanity today.
What you sow is what you reap PERRY
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inkling
he that cometh to God must believe that he is,
Huh?? God refuses to grant me reason to believe in him until I already believe in him??
Let me get this straight...
The reason the the faithful believe in god is because of a feeling inside they have been given by god...
Who only gave it to them AFTER they started believing in god, which happened becuase of the feeling
inside them that.....
Wow, I'm dizzy.You know, when you put it that ways it almost sounds like the only people capable of believing
in God are those with strong pre existing psychological climate to believe in the first place.
Why should skeptics be doomed to hell because they can't preemptively convince themselves,
but a gullible cretin who also believes (before "finding" Christ) in astrology and unicorns,
they are granted (in reward for their gullible tendencies) by God with a warm glowing sense
of sure knowledge as soon as they pray to God and ask.
Do you realize how effed up unfair that is?
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inkling
Ok, rereading your post, I guess I may have missed some the nuance of you claim, but to be fair I think you also missed some of mine:
You mentioned something about your JW-based-faith in your post. Just as a reminder of some of the fundamentals of that "faith":
The thing is that my JW-Faith was exactly what I had just lost. I was still reasonably open to the idea of god, but I lost all of the specifics of JW theology. This seems the ideal time for the "true" god to make himself known to me, especially seeing as I was asking for just that. And yes, I tryed praying both to and through "Jesus".
and if you sincerely DIRECT your prayer directly at Jesus the Mediator (the door), it is impossible for God to not answer you.
Another problem is that all of these very specific requirments for God to hear my request are all based on the Bible,
and modern christian understanding of Jesus word's in the Bible.
How am I supposed to have faith and trust in the instructions found in the Bible when I am still skeptical about the exsistance of it's author?
The chain of increasing belief must logically go like this:1) accepting that anything supernatural of any kind exists (being convinced of any sort of magic/miracle)
2) being convinced that miracles are being caused by supernatural personalities
3) being convinced that one of these supernatural personalality is an all-powerful creator god
4) being convinced that God still cares or ever cared about humans
5) THEN trying to figure out what book/prophet of the THOUSANDS of competing books and prophets he used to communicate with us.How is it fair to ask me to START by swallowing wholeheartedly the very specific claims of the Bible?
Before I can even "experience" God in any way?
Why would God ask humans to play that twisted game of theological Russian roulette?[inking]
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Perry
Inkling,
I'm off on a business trip this morning, but very quickly.:
The Hebrews 11 requirements seem little more than courtesy to me. Maybe you see it different and thats for you to decide. To me it seems resonable and any other position IMO is just rude. Has someone ever talked at you; or through you; like you weren't even there? How did that feel? And the requirement to expect a reward is just an extension of the first, just more recognition of the obvious. You might be reading more into those requirements than is necessary.
You mentioned something about is there a magic phrase or something. I'd point out to you that the way we all ended our prayers we-ask-all-this-inJesus-name amen; was little more than a mantra to be invoked like an insurance umbrella policy. Little did we know that the denial of Jesus as Mediator was more than enough to get a deaf ear. See, we are enemies of God by nature. His provision of a Mediator to take our punishment instead of us, (not just Adam) in our place, thus giving us a pardon was a kindness not an imperative .
You spoke about the belief catch 22 situation. Why not pray about that? Belief is certainly less than "knowing" which God is not asking for. He provides that at the new birth...which many times is after Salvation has occurred.
As just a couple of suggestions: Why not look at the Atheist paradigm in its totality? Is there anything out of place that would allow for a different explanation? How water tight are aspects common to that worldview?
http://www.s8int.com/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7285683/
Maybe take a gander at what was going on in the heavens at the time of Jesus' conception, birth, visitation from early scientists "from the east" , as well as at the exact time of his death. $10 is a pretty good deal for the return: http://www.bethlehemstar.net/
The thing is that my JW-Faith was exactly what I had just lost....This seems the ideal time for the "true" god to make himself known to me
You never did have faith in Jesus as your Mediator Inkling. You only lost your fath in your overseers that dictated for you what to think so you could parrot to others. Why should God have pity on you for shirking off a den of charlatans? Furthermore, apparently you had no trouble believing in God so that you could make the WT a counterfeit: "The Truth" when all along it was Jesus who was " the way, the truth , and the life". Why do you have trouble with believing God exists now that you are free to accept Jesus, the real deal? What are your motives in other words? I'm not trying to pull a holier than thou routine, just prompting probes that you might want to look at.
Have a good weekend.