Actually, I think I'm in favour of the atheism-pacify and theism-terrify word pairs, certainly when the suggestion is given by theists themselves. Makes me think of the recent UK atheist bus campaign:
Invisible Things of Him... are Clearly Seen, Being Understood by the Things That are Made
by Perry 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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drwtsn32
Does natural selection have limits?
Natural selection works only on the survivability of the organism. That's it.
Is there observable data beyond those limits that renders that model obsolete?
Intelligence would be required to see beyond what natural selection can do, or to direct evolution into a certain direction.
What would it take for you to believe in a Singularity with a personality?
Ths singularity you are enamored with no longer exists in its original form. It is now all the energy and matter in the universe. But to judge whether or not it has a personality, I'd have to go on a date with it.
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Awakened at Gilead
It's useless to try to talk sense into someone who thinks he sees a cross in a heavenly body. What about the heavenly bodies that resemble other gods, such as the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
A protein that perfectly resembles the FSM: http://www.umass.edu/molvis/bme3d/materials/jtat_080510/exploringdna/ch_flex/chapter.htm
A galaxy that resembles the FSM:
Is this proof that the FSM is real? If not, then Perry's arguments are useless also.
I agree that it takes courage to be an atheist. I would ratehr believe that when I die I am taken to heaven or that I will be ressurected. But I have chosen not to believe in what cannot be substantiated. I think a belief in the afterlife is one of the most dangerous beliefs on the face of the earth!
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drwtsn32
That is identical to the WT view of death. You may have other differences, but this is not one of them.
Did you even read what I said? I acknowledged that I share the "when you're dead you're dead" part with the WT. I don't share their concept of why we die or the hope for a resurrection, obviously.
And who cares? Do you think you're going to "shock" me because I believe the same as the WT on some points? Let's see...they say smoking's bad for you, and wow, I agree! Oh noes!
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drwtsn32
Because that is preferable to being tortured for all eternity by a loving God.
LOL, good point. But I'm not an atheist because I'm afriad of what god might do. In fact wouldn't that be the dumbest thing I could do? If I was afraid of god, I shouldn't piss him off more by becoming an atheist!
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drwtsn32
I think a belief in the afterlife is one of the most dangerous beliefs on the face of the earth!
One wonders if suicide bombers or those bastards that flew planes into the WTC towers would have done that were it not for their faith in an afterlife (and the reward of 70 virgins).
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Perry
But to judge whether or not it has a personality, I'd have to go on a date with it.
I would agree that meeting that person would provide proof. However, a lot of other evidence could be inferred prior to that meeting providing firm grounds for the liklihood of that person's existence.
It seems to me that your personal criteria you've decided upon would require proof only, and not simply evidence. Now, you have taken a critical step toward believing in the existence of God by stating that you would believe in his existence if you met him.
But what if he was angry with you for some reason and didn't want to meet you? Your perception wouldn't change, your personal beliefs wouldn't change, yet the reality would be the opposite of your perception.
God is angry with the wicked every day.- Ps. 7:11
Millions of people will testify (evidence) that they have met God through his indwelling (and more, thereby having irrefutable proof) after making friends with him. Just as we get mad when someone lies to us, God gets mad when we lie to anyone. And no, God does not require that you "clean up" your life or even be obedient to him before he'll make friends with a person. That's a WT invention. He is absolutely clear on this.
Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. - Romans 4: 4, 5
For those who try and work for LIFE, God says their efforts will only result in more debt to him. With each act of "goodness" to get LIFE a person will only go further in debt. God's terms are : It's free... take it or leave it .
However, you have arranged your "search" in such a way as to make meeting God seemingly impossible .
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inkling
However, you have arranged your "search" in such a way as to make meeting God seemingly impossible.
Not that long ago I tried asking, sincerely and humbly, for God to make himself known to me if he existed.
This was at the apex of my JW-based-faith crisis, and I still felt there was a god, but my belief in anything specific was quickly sliping away.
I said that it would not have to be objective proof, or even externally verifiable evidence in any way.
All he had to do was make ME sure, inside, that he is real and gives a damn (heh...) about me.
Nothing happened.
What did I do wrong? Is there a magic phrase or something I need to intone?[inkling]
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drwtsn32
The date thing was a joke. I haven't decided what "proof" would show me god really exists. I don't really know, to be honest. Why don't we leave that to the supposed almighty god? I'm sure he could figure out a way to prove to everyone he is real without a shadow of a doubt! But oh, that's not how he works. He wants people to believe in him based on faith. Convenient, isn't it?
However, you have arranged your "search" in such a way as to make meeting God seemingly impossible.
I approach everything the same way. I didn't "design" my tests for what is reality so that god would be excluded. Doesn't the fact that god is undiscoverable by using scientific methods tell you that maybe, just maybe, he isn't real?
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startingover
Inkling,
According to Perry you apparently aren't one of the chosen ones like he is. Welcome to the club.
