Jesus Is Jehovah/Jehovah Is Jesus

by snowbird 328 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • godrulz
    godrulz

    allelse: Your view is Arianism which is indefensible from Scripture. Jesus has the name above all names (=YHWH Phil. 2 quotes passage about YHWH and applies it to Jesus; cf. Heb. 1). You are getting closer than WT, but still reduce Christ to creature. Until you can say that He is Almighty God, uncreated Creator, YHWH in the flesh, your view will still fall short of truth.

    The second video (food for thought, not exhaustive) about Christ as creature deals with your misunderstanding of firstborn (even Jehovah was called firstborn in Jewish literature, so it does not mean first created in any sense, just preeminent...he is such because He is Creator, not angel...WT must add word 'other' 6x in NWT to change the meaning...see KIT).

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    I hope i'm included in that sentance??

    Of course you are. Shelby too.

  • EntirelyPossible
    EntirelyPossible

    Ironically, Scripture is indefensible from scripture. It's a house of cards that falls apart at the slightest gust.

  • PSacramento
    PSacramento

    You guys realy should keep from stretching these things out like this.

    FACT: You can't convince someone that believes in the Trinity that he is wrong, just as you can't convince someone that doesn't that they are wrong, using the bible. The reason being that the bibel doesn't refute either view.

    It's best to "live and let live" and remember that, for a Christian, what Christ is, is Our Lord and Saviour, The Word of God.

    Beyond that, very few of us are qualified to debate the nature of God and Christ.

    And since it has been going on for almost 2000 years, I am sure that it won't be resolved here, LOL !

  • Essan
    Essan

    What Psacramento said.

  • watersprout
    watersprout
    Of course you are.

    Aww thanks *looks down and giggles*

    Yeah what PSac said!

    Peace

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Christ is present at creation, yet the Witnesses teach he is created, don't they. Christ is the force. IN a single scripture, Paul says that we pre-existed creation, too, as individual humans. I know the verses for Christ are stronger than the one in Paul.

    Based on my experience with the Witnesses and studying the Gnostics at Columbia with the leading Gnostic scholar, I view Jehovah was Satan. He mind is focused on seuxality, his creation is lawed enough that he must slaughter all, except Noah, and I feel sorry for Noah. He orders Abraham to sacrifice Issac. Abraham took the order seriously so it must have consistent with a blood lust, unseemly for a creator God that is transcedent.

    It is beyond how even a casual Bible reader can believe Jehovah and Jesus are linked. One is a spoiled child having a temper tantrum. The other is full of love and grace. One tortures innocent people. The other is passionately concerned with radical social justice.

    I spit on the name Jehovah. Sorry, but I can't do the same for JHWH b/c of my many Jewish friends and colleagues.

    The Gnostic strand is evident. Jehovah is the demiurge, the weak and chaotic creator who imprisoned human souls in physicality. Jesus is the antidote to Jehovah. Jehovah had no daughters of God but many sons of God. When I heard that in class, I said F You! and lost any remnant of belief. Mary Magdalene was certainly a daughter of Jesus, if not His lover. And I tend to believe the second statement. Jesus embraces women. They are fully human to him. His behavior is remarkable for his time.

    I cast my vote and heart, mind, and soul To Christ, the Trinity.

  • transhuman68
    transhuman68

    LOL neither of them ever existed. They are fabrications from myths of other nations from thousands of years before the Bible was written. So they are the same really- just figments of the imagination of superstitious Middle Eastern goat-herders.

  • godrulz
    godrulz

    The Bible teaches a specific revelation of God/Christ. We can ascertain a sound doctrine of God/Christology. The Bible supports the true view and refutes false views. PSacro is simply wrong due to relativistic world views. We can show that monotheism is true and polytheism (LDS) is false. We can show that God is triune/Jesus is God and that Arianism is false. To say that Scripture is not decisive and can support either or no view is incorrect (yes, we can twist Scripture to make it seem like it supports a wrong view, but it does not do so when interpreted in context). A low view of Scripture as non-inspired/non-Word of God is another problem many have. Without it, we have no objective source of divine/spiritual truth that is credible.

  • tec
    tec

    What PSac said :)

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