WHY don't Americans realize GUNS are destroying their country?

by Witness 007 334 Replies latest jw friends

  • 5go
    5go
    Most criminals wont obtain a "infamous .50 BMG sniper rifle". At $3500 (or more) per copy and ammo that runs over $5 a round not many 'bangers are into Barrett- style rifles. Making that 'mile shot' ...

    Criminals most likely would not buy their guns seeing as stealing them is much cheaper, and cost effective way to do criminal activities. A gun shop near wear I used to live was robbed. That happens all the time, and goes unreported in the news 9 time out of 10. They didn't walk off with a Barret .50 rifle but several rifles and hand guns that would do plenty of damage in the right hands.

  • 5go
    5go
    Armed people win every day against armed hoodlums. It doesnt make good news copy.

    Nor, does the opposite.

  • hillbilly
    hillbilly
    A gun shop near wear I used to live was robbed. That happens all the time, and goes unreported in the news 9 time out of 10. They didn't walk off with a Barret .50 rifle but several rifles and hand guns that would do plenty of damage in the right hands.

    Ah...but you did mention that the Infamous.50..... why bother? And your area has had 10 gun shop break in's? After all those crimes are only reported once out of every 10 events.

    Hyperbole .......... I love it. How about everyone who has a wreck loses a car...after all in the wrong hands cars kill over 50,000 a year in the USA

    My favorite gun shop was robbed about a year ago. Even the local Barney and Andy SO was able to round up over 30 stolen weapons. I have been waiting nearly a year to get a consigned gun returned from evidence. So much for my rights eh? Why do I have to fill out any paper work or return any letters at all to get my property back?

    We have plenty of gun laws and regulations already.

    ~J

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    Do you believe felons should have the right to a gun? Do you believe a individual should be allowed to own his own personal nuclear device? If no, then you do not believe the second amendment protects your personal right to bear arms either. Felons retain all constitutional rights if the right to personal arms is true then no law may abridge that right. Personal bombs are firearms yet no one thinks that it is a right to have them, not even the most avid of gun rights nut. If you do, you are very stupid to say the least. It would mean felons, the criminals you seek protection with your firearms from may get any firearm they so choose to perpetrate their evil deeds against you including the infamous 50.BMG sniper rifle that can kill you from a mile away with ease. Also it would be impossible to stop nuclear terrorism do to the fact it is a right to posses the bomb.

    I am unable to follow your reasoning. I cannot understand how a nuclear bomb is related to me purchasing a firearm to defend myself and my family.

    I believe in the First Amendment. Yet, I cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theater. First Amendment rights are regulated. They are not absolute. I have no objections to regulations on Second Amendment rights. Currently, states and cities can legislate gun laws and regulations. The courts decide if the laws enacted by cities and states are constitutional. Just as free speech is regulated, I have no problem with prohibiting felons from owning firearms.

    I don't think our opinions of this subject would make either of us "stupid". I'm sorry you feel that way.

  • 5go
    5go
    I am unable to follow your reasoning. I cannot understand how a nuclear bomb is related to me purchasing a firearm to defend myself and my family.

    It defends your country quite well, and by doing so your family. So why can't you own one or for that matter a small grenade launcher? Which would be a more fitting analogy.

    I believe in the First Amendment. Yet, I cannot shout "fire" in a crowded theater. First Amendment rights are regulated. They are not absolute. I have no objections to regulations on Second Amendment rights. Currently, states and cities can legislate gun laws and regulations. The courts decide if the laws enacted by cities and states are constitutional. Just as free speech is regulated, I have no problem with prohibiting felons from owning firearms.

    You may have just made my argument for me. First of all you can yell fire in a crowded theater. The law though will hold you account for any damage that results from that act. The founding fathers realized you can not forbid free speech, and free speech can not have a law passed against it (doesn't stop some from trying and getting away with it) it was one of those big duh moment in man's law making history. But, free speech didn't blind the founding fathers from the responsibility of it's freedom. Hence, why slander has been a legal liability in this country from the start. In fact it originally meant you might face a legal dual (aka fight to the death).

    Arms on the other hand have, and never will be considered a right; but a privilege possessed by those that can handle them correctly. Which is decided by the people through their representative law makers. Even you have agreed to that premise.

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    Personally, I believe the 2nd amendment is very clear. It applies to individuals that are part of a well regulated militia.

    I spent some time speaking to a constitutional scholar, Robert Levy, on Thursday last. He masterminded the Heller case, the most important 2a case before the Supreme Court in more than 70 years, since the Miller/NFA case in 1934. If you look at the history behind the way the 2a was written, you will realize how wrong you are. Basically the anti-Federalists refused to ratify the Constitution because they were afraid of a standing army. Well, the Federalists said: there's the militia to balance them out! But the antis said "yeah but you guys will end up putting the militia under Federal control". Then the Federalists said, OK, but see, there is this right to personal armament, humans have had it from time immemorial: if we enumerate it in the Constitution, the people will have a counterbalance against the government if it should ever become tyrannical. The anti-federalists acquiesced on this point. The recent Heller case decided that the 2a protects and individual right, and anyone that reads the writings of the Framers of the Constitution (start with he Federalist Papers) will realize that this is what they meant and not engage in word play with the text.

    BTS

  • 5go
    5go

    The Heller case is basically the greatest pyrex victory of the right to personal arm crowd ever. All it did was say the status quo is OK oh and D.C. better let people have handguns. Despite then turning arround and affirming the bans on certain firerms. It is just begging to be overturned later.

  • 5go
    5go
    Dissenting opinions

    In a dissenting opinion, Justice John Paul Stevens stated that the court's judgment was "a strained and unpersuasive reading" which overturned longstanding precedent, and that the court had "bestowed a dramatic upheaval in the law". [ 36 ] Stevens also stated that the amendment was notable for the "omission of any statement of purpose related to the right to use firearms for hunting or personal self-defense" which was present in the Declarations of Rights of Pennsylvania and Vermont. [ 36 ]

    The Stevens dissent seems to rest on four main points of disagreement: that the Founders would have made the individual right aspect of the Second Amendment express if that was what was intended; that the "militia" preamble and exact phrase "to keep and bear arms" demands the conclusion that the Second Amendment touches on state militia service only; that many lower courts' later "collective-right" reading of the Miller decision constitutes stare decisis, which may only be overturned at great peril; and that the Court has not considered gun-control laws (e.g., the National Firearms Act) unconstitutional. The dissent concludes, "The Court would have us believe that over 200 years ago, the Framers made a choice to limit the tools available to elected officials wishing to regulate civilian uses of weapons.... I could not possibly conclude that the Framers made such a choice."

    Justice Stevens' dissent was joined by Justices David Souter, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, and Stephen Breyer.

    Justice Breyer filed a separate dissenting opinion, joined by the same dissenting Justices, which sought to demonstrate that, starting from the premise of an individual-rights view, the District of Columbia's handgun ban and trigger lock requirement would nevertheless be permissible limitations on the right.

    The Breyer dissent looks to early municipal fire-safety laws that forbade the storage of gunpowder (and in Boston the carrying of loaded arms into certain buildings), and on nuisance laws providing fines or loss of firearm for imprudent usage, as demonstrating the Second Amendment has been understood to have no impact on the regulation of civilian firearms. The dissent argues the public safety necessity of gun-control laws, quoting that "guns were 'responsible for 69 deaths in this country each day.'"

    With these two supports, the Breyer dissent goes on to conclude, "there simply is no untouchable constitutional right guaranteed by the Second Amendment to keep loaded handguns in the house in crime-ridden urban areas." It proposes that firearms laws be reviewed by balancing the interests (i.e., "'interest-balancing' approach") of Second Amendment protections against the government's compelling interest of preventing crime.

    The Breyer dissent also objected to the "common use" distinction used by the majority to distinguish handguns from machineguns: "But what sense does this approach make? According to the majority’s reasoning, if Congress and the States lift restrictions on the possession and use of machineguns, and people buy machineguns to protect their homes, the Court will have to reverse course and find that the Second Amendment does, in fact, protect the individual self-defense-related right to possess a machine-gun...There is no basis for believing that the Framers intended such circular reasoning." [ 37 ] (Other commentators have agreed with Breyer's criticism, but argued that the Court therefore erred in not overturning current machinegun restrictions. [ 38 ] [ 39 ] )

  • BurnTheShips
    BurnTheShips
    The Heller case is basically the greatest pyrex victory of the right to personal arm crowd ever. All it did was say the status quo is OK oh and D.C. better let people have handguns. Despite then turning arround and affirming the bans on certain firerms. It is just begging to be overturned later.

    No, it was certainly not a pyrrhic (PYREX is a type of GLASS) victory, and it overturned the status quo in DC. DC had an outright ban on handguns. The Heller decision denied DC the power to ban a whole class of common weapons (handguns). What the Heller case did not do is affirm an absolute right; reasonably such a thing does not exist--not even with the other enumerated rights/amendments (e.g. 1st Amendment gives me freedom of speech, yet I cannot scream fire in a crowded theater). As for the dissenting opinions, I thank the maker they were in the minority, for if/when they come knocking on the door for my guns, I will know it to be the last opportunity I will have to use them. BTS

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt
    Arms on the other hand have, and never will be considered a right

    The bearing of arms is a right. This is no way means that the government cannot regulate it.

    Below, the ACLU disagrees with the Heller decision, but they acknowledge what the Heller decision means.

    The Supreme Court has now ruled otherwise. In striking down Washington D.C.'s handgun ban by a 5-4 vote, the Supreme Court's 2008 decision in D.C. v. Hellerheld for the first time that the Second Amendment protects an individual's right to keep and bear arms, whether or not associated with a state militia.

    http://www.aclu.org/crimjustice/gen/35904res20020304.html

    Justice Scalia, writing in the majority opinion for Heller, expressed nothing to indicate that he believes in an unregulated right, free of all restrictions.

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