My theory about the behavior and obsession of some ex-JWs

by Simon 135 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Gerard

  Your condescenting comments are amusing at best. Here's one for you: I have never been a JW, Hillary. So between the two of us, who is the ignorant asshole that got sucked into a cult? (How do you like this generalization, Hillary?)

  I am amazed that you can speak at all with your lips so tight to Simon's butt; here it marches Sir Simon with a stupid blanket statement reeking of superiority and having figured human nature, and you two hide behind a cult's rule book that disqualifies any feeling instead of considering humanity and vulnerability.

  Ever experienced the terror of an imminent violent death (DF) ? Sure any little girl deserves it, no matter what she did....... the rules are the rules. She was born into it so she knew it and deserves whatever comes her way via heavenly Brooklyn. She is absolutely not entitled to suffer of post traumatic stress disorder...because Simon said so. The JW child abusers are also operating under your beloved rule book when they claaim repentence, and their victims are not entitled to anger or frustration because Simon said so......and because Hillary uses red ink in her posts.
• 

  MissingLink

  You make a good point about not all exjw's being good people. This is a warning that all should consider.

  But I think it's not possible to generalize people in any way, each must be "judged" on their own actions.

  There are good people who have been DF for making one-off mistakes to make them an example for the others in the congregation. Just because they got DF for breaking one of the rules doesn't mean they necessarily weren't repentant (this is the case with my sister).

  And there are good people who have walked away becasue they see the corruption, and some of these go mad with their new found freedom and their actions and ideas after that make them people that I don't personally want to be associated with.

  As for those who are still fighting the fight after 20 years - there may be different reasons for this. Some are concerned about others trapped in a cult and see helping these ones as a good "christian" deed. They could volunteer their efforts elsewhere, but they already are experts in this area. And maybe some are just bitter old anarchist coots with nothing positive to do in this life.

  I'm not a bible believer, but I think there are still some truisms to be found in it like: Bad association spoils useful habits. Switch and I are giving everyone we meet a chance, not being quick to judge, but also being cautious and selective in who we call our friends.
• 

  zagor

  Those who decided to walk out seem to be more grounded and thoughtful

  That was very nicely said, thank you
• 

  ozziepost

  HS said:

  These people need professional help and I would suggest that these boards rather than helping them, actually add to their emotional issues.

  It's an interesting observation, one that I hadn't thought about but I do find it an appealing one. In other words, these boards can actually feed their anger, further entrenching their characterisation as an exJW. Or rather that should simply be a lapsed JW?
• 

  ozziepost

  Simon;

  Yep, I tend to agree with you. Of course that's in general terms - I realise there are exceptions.

  I really wonder whether a lot of the posters we have seen on JWD who like to think of themselves as exJW are simply lapsed dubs?

  We've probably met many people in 'real life' are known as lapsed catholics - are they any more 'ex' than are many folk we've encountered here?
• 

  Sirona

  Gerard,

  What you said came across as extreme, but I must say I agree that DFing is NOT acceptable even if "the rules are in place" in the cult. As you said, someone could be born into JWs and baptised at a young age, then have to suffer just because they are attempting to live a normal life.

  I don't agree with the kangaroo courts under any circumstances. If the person has done something illegal, involve the police. If they have done something bad, then the church's responsibility stops at listening and helping them and where necessary issuing a warning to others.

  Sirona
• 

  core

  As a generalisation I agree with Simons view - I have not posted much here but have noted others postings and have seen some examples of self-justification by those whom I would not want to know - have also seen heart-rending accounts of abuse of power/trust by elders.<br>

  Also, for the first time, I have looked this week at other forums and been frankly completely appalled at the content - one site appearing to be nothing but an anti-Simon rant.<br>

  Why people have the time or energy to rave ant rant about forum rules, when alternatives exist, baffles me, why it is necessary to stoop to the level of gross personal abuse (incidentally libel in my view in uk law) - IF YOU DONT LIKE THE RULES LEAVE, sadly it seems that we are all leaving as the mindless number who enjoy slagging off Simon have pushed him over the edge - and yes - he has moved on and now must put his family first.

  <br>

  What has been apparent in the last couple of years in the "clique" of posters who appear to have full-time jobs posting here and have - in my view - put off simple souls who look for a refuge and not anbother storm.<br>

  If I take one thing as a memory from JWD (apart from the Caspian saga which still amuses me) it is that there are a lot of decent souls who are trying to rebuild shredded lives after leaving the WT, and my memory is that this board has provided at least a temporary refuge whilst people readjust to life outside.<br>And that is what faces us all now as we are weened away from JWD and left to stand on our own two feet, thanks SImon and all your assistants, (even Englishman in the past who always provised a touch of humour, Hilary Step for logic, Blondie for mind numbing detail and on and on.....Thanks everyone
• 

  hillary_step

  Gerard,

  Your condescenting comments are amusing at best. Here's one for you: I have never been a JW, Hillary. So between the two of us, who is the ignorant asshole that got sucked into a cult? (How do you like this generalization, Hillary?)

  Where becoming a JW is concerned, yes I admit it was not the smartest move in my life, but what the hell does this have to do with your ability to read and rationalize?

  Let me answer my own question, as you seem incapable of admitting to your failures. It has NOTHING to do with point at hand.

  I am amazed that you can speak at all with your lips so tight to Simon's butt; here it marches Sir Simon with a stupid blanket statement reeking of superiority and having figured human nature, and you two hide behind a cult's rule book that disqualifies any feeling instead of considering humanity and vulnerability.

  You really are a dumbass. You have still not seen the obvious principle here that everybody else has. Do they all have 'lips so tight on Simon's butt', or is it that you are as dense as boxwood. The latter, given the evidence above is the obvious choice.

  You misread the point Simon was making and you STILL cannot see that, which yes, makes you the 'ignorant asshole'. I have three times now explained to you that Simon was not moralizing about the VALUE of WTS rules, he was merely indicating that these rules were applied in a given situation. Let me quote his words again:

  The kicked-outs I'm thinking of are those where there were good reasons to kick them out based on the rules in place.

  Let me write them again in a way that might get your attention:

  The kicked-outs I'm thinking of are those where there were good reasons to kick them out BASED ON THE RULES IN PLACE. <--- Clue. The caps are important. ;)

  Ever experienced the terror of an imminent violent death (DF) ? Sure any little girl deserves it, no matter what she did....... the rules are the rules. She was born into it so she knew it and deserves whatever comes her way via heavenly Brooklyn. She is absolutely not entitled to suffer of post traumatic stress disorder...because Simon said so. The JW child abusers are also operating under your beloved rule book when they claaim repentence, and their victims are not entitled to anger or frustration because Simon said so......and because Hillary uses red ink in her posts

  My God but you are dumb! Can you not see that neither Simon or myself have in ANY way defending the WTS rules, or the morality or immorality of their application.

  Shaking head......

  HS
• 

  Fe2O3Girl

  Very interesting topic. I really hope that I am, and am seen to be, one of the exceptions to the rules.

  I was "kicked out" for commiting adultery. I was a born-in, but I was well aware of the consequences of not following the rules when I was baptized as a child, then married as barely an adult. I expected to be disfellowshipped for my actions, I did not expect anyone not to shun me on the basis of personal friendship or family relationships.

  I have been out of the WT for over 14 years. In the first few years after I was forcibly liberated, I explored all sorts of behaviour within legal limits. I had been told all my life that that is what everyone who wasn't a JW was doing. I thought it was normal. It finally dawned on me that everyone wasn't sleeping around, getting blind drunk, swearing constantly and so on.

  I found online XJW communities (H2O, Tishie's board) around 1998. The information I found crystallised what I already suspected - JWs were not the "truth". I may have had some robust discussions online but I hope that I have never overstepped the line into abuse and bad manners.

  I still check this message board because it is useful to know what is going to affect my parents. I am an ex XJW. I am just normal now.

  On a related theme, I was thinking recently about what a shame it is that hateful people have forced Simon to withdraw this forum - and from within the XJW community! I have tended to think that the WT is losing the cream of it's flock - the kindest, the cleverest and the most conscientious. However, JWs are a cross-section of the wider community, a mixture of good and bad, nice and nasty, and to some extent that is going to be reflected in the XJW community too. Some of us are too good to be JWs, and some aren't good enough.
• 

  trevor

  Over the years I have noticed a high number of posters displaying obsessive behaviour. Obsessive people suffer from high levels of anxiety which often results in depression.

  Most People overcome depression and replace it with frustration at the damage their problems have done to those around them, which leads to anger and further isolation.

  A board like this can encourage obsessive behaviour, which acounts for some of those who are full time posters, trying to replace a real social life with cyber friends. Boards like this work well for balanced people but become an addiction to the type of person I have described. Argument and conflict increase obsessive tendencies. Constant posting may bring a temporary relief but ultimately increase repetitive behaviour.

  In my opinion anyone who feels angry or more isolated than before as a result of a visit here, should take a break and go for some long walks. Also get involved in activities that reduce their stress levels and calm them.

  Perhaps the closing of this forum will give some the opportunity to get on with their lives and get help with their obsessive thoughts. Anyone who feels an uncontrollable urge to Jump on to another forum and repeat the same behaviour, should honestly ask themselves what they are trying to achieve? Are they trying to help others or themselves?