by Simon 135 Replies latest jw friends
yes evidence of God's spirit, Df a teen for smoking, private reproof for a rapist.
This was also one of my issues with the org. My ex confessed to the elders just before we were married about a year long affair she had after being baptized with a worldy boyfriend. Even though she had slept with the man several times, all she received was a private reproof. Nine years later she had a "near liazon" with the same worldly boyfriend and again was privately reproved.
Good points.
Cognitive dissonance goes a long way in explaining some behavior.
When you're "in", you use any and every reason to affirm to yourself that you should be "in". Many go to wacky lengths to accomplish this.
When many are "out", they try to find any and every reason to affirm to themselves that they should be "out". Many go to wacky lengths to accomplish this.
Those that can raise themselves out of this mental framework (induced by the WTS in the first place), I think, finally move on.
As I understand it, Simon's question is not about whether disfellowshipping as practiced by JWs is humane.
Simon's theory (by his own admission, a huge, sweeping generalization not applicable to every individual circumstance, one that he offered for exploration and comments) is:
Ex-JWs who were kicked out (more specifically, disfellowshipped legitimately, i.e. in compliance with accepted Watchtower Society rules) appear to be more obsessive longer (e.g. 20+ years after being DFed, still defining oneself as an ex-JW, friends and associates are mainly ex-JWs, inability to let go.)
Ex-JWs who decided to walk away seem more grounded and thoughtful. Once their questions have been answered and they've received immediate support, these let go and move on. They do not define themselves as ex-JWs years after leaving.
An even simpler version might be to ask--What causes some ex-JWs to remain obsessively involved in the ex-JW world long after leaving the JWs?
I haven't seen a clear-cut difference between DFed ex-JWs and walk-away ex-JWs. I do think a lot hinges on how one views the experience. If we see ourselves as helpless victims, the hurt, anger, and feelings of betrayal last a long time. We're bitter. We want revenge. We want justice. We want to talk to others who understand our traumatic experience.
Being able to let go is about forgiveness. We forgive ourselves for our own choices. We forgive ourselves for the harm we may have caused others. We forgive those who may have influenced our decisions. Once we're able to forgive, we can move on to asking, "How can I prevent this from happening to myself and others in the future?"
I was a child when my parents became Jehovah's Witnesses. I realize now that they did the best they could with the knowledge they had at the time. In the chaotic world of the late 60's, they were looking for hope, structure, and a sense of security.
I chose to continue as a JW as an adult. In the "Eyes Wide Shut" thread started by Amnesian, my eyes were opened to my own share of responsibility in the choice. I was not a helpless victim. I had wanted easy answers. I had wanted the hope of immortal life in paradise. I lacked critical thinking skills and did not investigate the Society. I had chosen to give my power away. I had chosen to submit to the Watchtower rules.
When I first discovered that the Watchtower Society tells lies, it was easy to be angry at Brooklyn and to want to "topple the Tower." As time went on, I remembered that most of the JWs in my congregation were good, well-meaning people who were just as duped as I was. I've read stories here of folks at Bethel who were also good and well-intentioned. Ray Franz was a member of the Governing Body for several years and thought he was helping. Which men are to blame? Who are the bad guys? Which ones are deliberately evil?
I agree with HillaryStep that 'large organizations can be sociopathic in nature: no conscience, no feeling, no individuality, just a machine that grinds away focused on one objective.' I hope we figure out how to straitjacket organizations like these so they cannot harm themselves and others.
Why are some ex-JWs obsessed with the ex-JW world long after leaving? Here are some more ideas:
Ginny
Ozzie: I really wonder whether a lot of the posters we have seen on JWD who like to think of themselves as exJW are simply lapsed dubs?
We've probably met many people in 'real life' are known as lapsed catholics - are they any more 'ex' than are many folk we've encountered here?
I also have known and do know countless lapsed catholics, baptists, jews, etc. That is exactly what the ex jw terminology for "fader" equates to--a lapsed jw. In that cult, you're looked down upon for being lapsed, but it still is the same.
Trevor--I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm in agreement with Simon, it is a generalisation but to some 'Jehovah's Witnessdom' is still their life, despite not being part of the organisation.
I do agree with most of what you say Simon, I made a post on here many years ago along similar lines, which also added that some ex-jws are the peadophiles we despise so much, and I wouldn't personally be welcoming them to a forum with open arms to say the least.
Regarding the time it takes to "recover", and how long you spend on an ex-JW board.... well you have to remember that the current generation have grown up with computers in their homes- so they can walk out of the KH and switch on, register and vent their anger or joy or whatever. When I was D/F I spent years trying to go back like a lost sheep, until someone invented the web and someone else brought it to our homes at an affordable cost, and when I started finding ex-jw sites, I was still innocent shall we say to all that I was about to discover. And only then was I able to draw a line in the sand and move on which as you probably know, I have done.
"Whatever motivation lured us to the JW world keeps playing out in the ex-JW world:"
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Hey, I just went to the meetings at first because I needed to nurse.
Six,
you were a suckatitty baby? Must have been sweet and cute. What happened?
Wow, where do I start? As you can see by my posts I am new to this board. I'm very sorry for Simon that disturbed people have been harassing him- there's NO excuse for that! But please, Simon, refrain from huge generalizations. I have experience with many faders and many df'ds, and to say that one is better than another- even "generally speaking"- has no backing whatsoever and it's very unkind. I come to this board to be encouraged or to relate to peoples' pain and it's helpful for me. What's NOT helpful for me is listening to a flame war by Hilary_Step and Gerard. Both of them are equally insulting. And thank you Sirona for your level-headedness.
LisaAnn,
What's NOT helpful for me is listening to a flame war by Hilary_Step and Gerard.
If your obviously gentle sensibilities are disturbed by that mild interchange, then your life on XJW discussion boards is likely to be short and less than sweet.
You need a thick skin to post on these Boards and just for the record, being 'helpful' is not what these boards are about. They are about discussion, opinion and individuality, and subsequently can be rather frightening to a newly emerging JW where such things were viewed as sinful and where passive-agreesive behavior won the day.
Jump in with both feet LisaAnn, speak your mind, no-one has died from posting here yet.
HS
