Convictions or Reasons - which come first? (page 9)

funkyderek

snowbird:

For the record, I'm not delusional, intellectually dishonest, or unintelligent.

Yes you are. You are definitely at least one of those things. It's simply not possible to hold the beliefs you claim to hold without so being.

(I would post my IQ, but since so-called intelligent tests have been stacked so egregiously against African-Americans, I'll pass).

What must it be like to live in your world!

I've said before that I believe the Bible is only as inerrant as the men who wrote it, but I accept it - warts and all - as God's revelation of Himself to His human creatures. I don't know how I can possibly make that any clearer.

You could make it clearer simply by formulating it in a way that is not inherently contradictory. Unfortunately it is impossible to hold the beliefs you do without embracing such contradiction, which is clearly why you seem to revel in it.

It was men (literally) who wrote the Bible; it is men (generically) who write scientific textbooks. We believe one group, why not the other?

We don't just believe men, no matter what they say. We listen to what they say and then we compare it to reality. If it corresponds, then and only then do we believe them. Why is that so hard to understand? You must realise that you do not believe the men who wrote the Bhagavad Gita. Why do you not believe them? This is a perfect example of why you get accused of stupidity and intellectual dishonesty. You are happy to take the claims of the Bible as fact for no reason, but do not do so for any other claim.

I haven't seen any such incontrovertible evidence.

Sure you have. You have just not understood it or chosen to ignore it. (Probably a little of both.)

When, and if I do, I will gladly remove my shield.

I don't believe that will ever happen. That shield is all you have.

slimboyfat

Theories always precede observation, as Popper argued: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability

snowbird

What must it be like to live in your world!

Simply wonderful! Care to join me?

We don't just believe men, no matter what they say. We listen to what they say and then we compare it to reality. If it corresponds, then and only then do we believe them. Why is that so hard to understand? You must realise that you do not believe the men who wrote the Bhagavad Gita. Why do you not believe them? This is a perfect example of why you get accused of stupidity and intellectual dishonesty. You are happy to take the claims of the Bible as fact for no reason, but do not do so for any other claim.

Don't you think I've done that? I think you need to take another dip in the Irish Sea. This time it may be a good idea to remain fully clothed.

I haven't seen any such incontrovertible evidence.
Sure you have. You have just not understood it or chosen to ignore it. (Probably a little of both.)

Just as you have chosen to blast anything or anyone who supports the Bible?

When, and if I do, I will gladly remove my shield.
I don't believe that will ever happen. That shield is all you have.

... and all I need.

Sylvia

Slappy

And things just got a little less civil...I have that effect at times.

funkyderek, I'll say this as kindly as possible, but I can't promise much. Do you feel better? Does it get your rocks off to blast others' remarks for no other reason than that you can? I have my evidence and reasoning and you have yours. I understand your evidence and why you believe what you do, but you can't, and I honestly believe you don't even try to understand my point of view. As a result of not understanding something, you immediately assume it's wrong, and as a result you deteriorate into a complete bigot and contribute absolutely nothing in way of a constructive debate. You know why you don't bother trying to understand it? You're afraid. You're afraid that maybe, just maybe, your superior intellectual capabilities aren't as superior as you think, and that there is a God out there who is disappointed and hurt (not angry) with your constant rejection after all He has done for you.

Actions have consequences. Posting poorly-thought out nonsense generally results in a critical response. I know it won't bother you too much though. You've got your invisible forcefield of faith to immunise you against any criticism.

Would you believe that I'm not entirely immune to critizism? Critizism, when offered in the proper spirit, can help us grow, whether it be physically, intellectualy, spiritually, etc... However, if that's what you view as critizism, then we're thinking of two different words. And since you are the intellectualy superior person, yours is the proper form, and I bow to your superiority, and count myself blessed that you would deem me worthy to bestow your attention upon. Actually your "critizism" did hurt me, but not in the sense that you might think. It hurts that you are so bitter and devoid of understanding that you have no other choice but to respond as you did. However, I will pray for you and that you may gain an understanding; for all things are possible for God.

But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19:26

And sorry jgnat, but I'd read some of the posts in response to snowbird, and knew that my post would elicit backlash. And, as you can see, funkyderek didn't disappoint.

Trevor, it's a pleasure, and with your outlook on life you are a lot farther along than most of us. What was it Socrates said? Oh, yes...

“I know nothing except the fact of my ignorance” –Socrates
“True knowledge exists in knowing that you know nothing” –Socrates

bk

snowbird

Slappy!!!

You've just done what this intellectually dishonest, unintelligent, delusional person was loathe to do: Call His Funkness out for the blackguard he really is.

Give me some dap!

Sylvia

Slappy

Snowbird, I really didn't want to do it, and I know that I probably shouldn't have responded as I did for that is not how Christ would have us to behave. However, I will be the first to admit that I am weak, and have a very difficult time not calling people out for their lack of respect, among other failings.

I know that it will in no way help derek out in making him a better person (if anything, it will only make him more bitter) For only God can work the miracle that needs to happen, hence the prayer. But I wanted others to truly understand him for the type of person he is so that they will take his comments with a grain of salt; if they weren't already.

bk

John Doe

Slappy, your last post lost all credibility with me, and I'm sure with others as well.

snowbird

Slappy, your last post lost all credibility with me, and I'm sure with others as well.

What of Derek's? In all fairness and honesty, shouldn't his be open to the same scrutiny?

Or is that fairness and honesty only apply to some?

Sylvia

John Doe

What of Derek's? In all fairness and honesty, shouldn't his be open to the same scrutiny?

His criticism of derek are not what I was talking about. And yes, we should all be subject to scrutiny, just as our assertions and beliefs should. The fact that religion has always claimed an exemption from scrutiny has caused a lot of problems.

Slappy

What John? You don't understand meekness and humility? Or how incredibly hard it is for me to behave in such way? Or why I would even want to behave in such a way?

What is it exactly that made me lose credibility? Your post is incredibly ambiguous. This isn't one of those "I don't understand it so I'll bash it" things is it? Those wear out rather quick.

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Romans 12:18

Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another. Romans 14:19

Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence [am] base among you, but being absent am bold toward you... 2 Corinthians 10:1

Convictions or Reasons - which come first?

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