by StillinLove 70 Replies latest social relationships
"Most anyone who is religous beleives the same thing, premarital sex is wrong ... So if you want to say that it shows him to be immoral than so are most people."
I think the main issue is not the sex, but the duplicity. Your boyfriend is a practiced, compulsive liar. He is leading a double life. If he is so successful at deceiving his family and fellow believers, is he not capable of deceiving you as well?
let me know about the tent.l
"Most anyone who is religous beleives the same thing, premarital sex is wrong ... So if you want to say that it shows him to be immoral than so are most people."
Like Jenlet said, the issue is more one of (possible) duplicity.
The JW's practice an extreme form of shunning and premarital sex is fairly high on the list of offenses for which one can receive this judgement.
If your boyfriend is a believing JW (And I don't know that he is, so I'm not judging him) then he supports this arrangement, which means he actively takes part in administering the "punishment" for this offense. (i.e. Refusal to speak to disfellowshipped individuals)
It would be duplicitous to punish someone else for committing the same sin that you are guilty of. Isn't that the gist of Jesus' saying, "Let him that is without sin cast the first stone."
It's not about what's important to you. The kids will be raised as JW's to be taught that
Mommie is "wrong" or "worldly" or any number of negative terms like "going to be destroyed
at Armageddon." They will be taught an unhealthy fear of a God who uses the WT organization
to control people. They will miss out on normal activities such as interaction with other kids
concerning holidays and birthdays- they might be fearful that Jehovah will destroy them if they
wear green on St. Patricks Day or accept a piece of birthday cake from a five-year-old. They
will be expected to go to all those meetings that reinforce the doctrine down their throats and
teaches them that Mommie deserves to be destroyed, along with that five-year-old that tried
to give them cake. They will be expected to skip sports and college and set their goals toward
selling WT literature full time for free and working part-time to stay poor and barely get by.
to the above quote. I have seen people try to explain what it is like to be raised a witness, but this is about the best I have seen.
Marriage and relationships are hard enough, when you throw in a difference in religious ideology, with a cult like the JW, the best advice is to not get involved at all. There are people here that are married and were JWs but have left and many of them are going throw HELL, and I mean from emotional blackmale, to sleeping alone, to countless fights and debates over nothing more than a difference in religion. And if you think that this man who is not ready to leave the religion even though he is with you, than imagine if you can how he is going to act in an attempt to rectify his wrongdoing.
And trust me, there is NOTHING and I do mean nothing like a "repentant JW" who is trying to make amends with the congregation. Zealous doesn't even begin to cover it.
Personally, I think deep down inside you know all the answers to the questions you are asking, you are just trying to figure out how to deal with the reality that you are aware. You have two choices, run like hell or stew in the soup. I wish you well.
You have a good point, what I think he has been struggling with, like I did when I was growing up, was how to balance the things he believes so strongly when at the same time there are other things which he disagrees with. For me, growing up catholic was fine until I started to feel like they were wrong; about homosexuality and people of other religons being wrong for example. That was when I broke with the church, and my mother followed, at just 15 I knew deep down that none of it felt right to me. it was more than just a few things, it was just about everything, I dont beleive in alot of it so I decided to leave.
In his situation however, there are only a few things he disagrees with. Most of them are the politics, he doesnt agree with the way kids are treated. His own sister (who lives 6 states away with his dad and step mom) was taken out of high school at 14 and home schooled because she was caught talking to a boy on the phone, now she has one friend and is monitered 24-7. That is not the way he wants to parent, and he struggles with how he is supposed to remain a JW and live his life without being harrassed. As you all may or may not agree, he doesnt think that God is anrgy that he loves a worldly girl, Sex is not evil (just an unwise choice) and certainly not a damning sin, he also dosent think god hates his friends who arent JW. But even though he beleives these things the cong does not, and unlike in most religous groups, they can punish him dearly for it. My heart breaks for him because its so unfair, as a catholic it would have been no big deal if I disagreed with a few things and even if I sinned they would only be disappointed not unforgiving. He has two things he loves and one of them is deeply unforgiving and closed minded on a human (not necesarrily spiritual) level, the cong is a human invention and so is the unacceptance the teachings however should be open to inturpretation but the organization ruins that part. He just wants to be able to have his wife and family and a community who will love him for who he is but they wont, so he is in one hell of a position.
O and as for the punishing part, he still talks to the one friend of his who was disfellowshiped even though he isnt supposed to. And as for going along with the punishing, with rare exception his friends make it a point not to tell eachother details in case they are questioned about eachother. "You cant slip up if you dont know anything" is the basic idea. Like he said he doesnt plan on treating his own kids the way he was treated about having friends. He knows he cant be mad when thier own mother is worldly.
I wont be moving away from him, he wants to go to florida now as it is but is waiting for me.
I don't know if you've picked up the term "worldly" from your boyfriend and his friends or from this board. If I were you I simply wouldn't use it. Don't allow yourself to be negatively categorized by anyone. It isn't fair.
I'm no psychologist, but I am going to take a guess here and say that you have Boundary issues. If so, this probably isn't the only example in your life where boundaries have become an issue. I recommend the following book. You can probably get it at the local library and it's a fairly quick read:
Boundaries - Where You End And I Begin: How To Recognize And Set Healty Boundaries by MA, Anne Katherine
I was a drifted, born in, JW when I married an Anglican.
I believe my wife made a big mistake in marrying me. Because I did not fully understand that the WT was bogus, I was not marriageable material.
Then she made her second mistake. I introduced her to the religion and she did not check out their doctrines for truthfullness. She became a member.
I let her indoctrinate our children because I still didn't understand that the WT was bogus. I hadn't checked out their doctrines for truthfullness either.
Now that I have done the checks that we both should have done, I have become the Evil One that, in their eyes, that has left Jehovah. Life is very difficult.
I wouldn't wish the situation I have created for myself on my worst enemy.
Until your BF fully understands that the WT is bogus, he is damaged goods. That doesn't mean that he would never make a good husband. He needs to understand that he has been under the influence of a high control cult and needs help to deal with the effects before he makes a commitment.
Good luck
Chris
You are obviously going to stick with this guy. You obviously think he has good intentions
and is not using WT-standards in his life, and you are sure he won't use WT-standards to
raise any children you might have.
You have tried to convince us of all this. That is why I have quoted your initial post.
We have to assume the guy wants to be a JW and still believes the JW's are "the truth."
That's what you started out telling us.
I know that he always wanted me to convert and tried to get me to and he always will, but when we discuss religion (which is often) I am never swayed and he has gotten used to it. And as he explained it; life would be much easier for us if we were both JW and obviously he would want me to be one b/c of his beleif about paradise earth. But thats not a big deal b/c he loves me regardless of my beleifs and we're very feisty so we actually have a pretty good time debating our differences.So my concerns are; his religousness has made him incredibly small minded in certain ways and I am concerned about how that will affect our ability to raise kids. I am totally fine with them being raised as witnesses because he is an incredible person with strong values from his faith and I am not religous so I know that it is more important to him than me.
Problem being: how do I get him to understand that Im not that kind of woman and dont want to be? I want to get him to realize that we need to be able to work together as equals and he needs to back down on that one? He understands my side but says "thats what the bible says so..." so my question is how do i get him to get over that and compermise?
As we addressed these concerns, you seemed to be able to dismiss our responses. You did it
nicely and were grateful for our thoughts, but you were bound and determined to make it work.
Fine. That's the kind of love that is enduring- the kind you fight for.
Still, many of our concerns will become reality. He may get back to being a strong Witness and
dismiss his "worldly" playmate. He may say that you need to become a JW in order to continue
the relationship. He may not. We addressed those, you are forewarned.
The issues with the kids are very serious. As long as he remains a JW, we highly advise you not
to have kids, and certainly not to let him raise them as JW's since you "know that it is more
important to him..."
Since you will insist that it will all work out fine because he is not like them, why does he still want
to be one of them? He disagrees with their policy on premarital sex, association with outsiders, way
of raising children, etc. He is trying to be a normal human being despite their influence on his life.
He may one day come out of the religion, but what is holding him back?
