Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein! (page 12)

BurnTheShips

Why can science not admit that there may well be intelligent life that is not carbon-based; i.e. life that is not limited to the rules governing carbon-based life?

That occurred to me too, after hearing the Dawkins postulate that extraterrestrial life had to have evolved, i f it existed. It might not even be carbon based (if it exists) and it could presumably have come into existence through a far different process, if it exists. But the Dawkins dogmatically declares that if it exists it must have evolved. You show the Dawkins 10 inkblots, and they all look like "evolution" to him. Broken. The eye sees what it wants to see.

Hey Dawkins, its a big Universe out there.

Burn

Galileo

There are hypotheses regarding abiogenesis, there are no theories. Eventually one of these hypotheses will make it to the status of theory but let's not get ahead of ourselves.

D'oh! You're right of course. I made the classic blunder of using the word "theory" the way it is commonly used, meaning hypothesis, instead of it's scientific usage. I can't believe I did that in a thread discussing evolution of all things. Thanks for the correction.

Caedes

But the Dawkins dogmatically declares that if it exists it must have evolved. You show the Dawkins 10 inkblots, and they all look like "evolution" to him. Broken. The eye sees what it wants to see.

The fact that prof Dawkins sees a naturalistic explanation for the origin of all life hardly makes him dogmatic. It is difficult to see just how dogmatic you can be when you have publicly declared your willingness to rescind your belief in evolution if a theory comes along that better explain the facts. All you have to do is present your evidence in a peer reviewed journal and 'the dawkins' is all yours.

real one

Praise God, shame the devil! it dosent matter how much you guys discuss this idea the outcome is going to be the same, Jesus Christ is Lord! So debate this fact forever, I know you will. Dawkins is made of dust just like the rest of us and he is nobody special. Just another one of the Devil's imps, guys get real!

hamsterbait

I don't see any need to account for a "first cause" for subatomic particles to just come into existence - as has been shown by quantum mechanics.

I don't see any need to account for a first cause that made a creator come into existence.

In both cases you just decide to stop trying to trace the lineage any further.

"It is turtles ALL the way down."

In any case, I don't believe in the vengeful genocidal psychopath of the Bible.

HB

BurnTheShips

I don't see any need to account for a "first cause" for subatomic particles to just come into existence - as has been shown by quantum mechanics.

Virtual particles have a "first cause", they are caused by the spacetime itself. Their appearance is a property of the Universe, so they come from something, not nothing.

Burn

BurnTheShips

Sure it is hamilcarr. Hitler, Stalin and the eugenisists weren't insane; there was a certain logic to their evil. That logic was that certain unapproved people were simply "eaters" and a drain on society. They believed that modern man was interfering with natural selection. They sought to correct what they saw as unnatural.
Unnatural and ... against God's will . Consider these quotes for example:
Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord (Hitler 1943, 65). What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence and reproduction of our race and our people, . . . so that our people may mature for the fulfillment of the mission allotted it by the creator of the universe. (Hitler 1943, 214)
Hitler believed he was fighting against dark anti-God forces:
A campaign against the "godless movement" and an appeal for Catholic support were launched Wednesday by Chancellor Adolf Hitler's forces (Associated Press 1933).
After a while, Darwinism was seen as a threat for the pure Nazi-mind. Among the works to be rejected by libraries were:
Writings of a philosophical and social nature whose content deals with the false scientific enlightenment of primitive Darwinism and Monism (Häckel). (Die Bücherei 1935, 27)
Literature which absolutely must be removed:
c) All writings that ridicule, belittle or besmirch the Christian religion and its institution, faith in God, or other things that are holy to the healthy sentiments of the Volk . (Blacklist n.d.)

There may be a bit of historical revisionism at play here.

Time Magazine, December 23rd, 1940:

Not you, Herr Hitler, but God is my Führer. These defiant words of Pastor Martin Niemoller were echoed by millions of Germans. And Hitler raged: "It is Niemoller or I." So this second Christmas of Hitler's war finds Niemoller and upwards of 200,000 other Christians (some estimates run as high as 800,000) behind the barbed wire of the frozen Nazi concentration camps. Here men bear mute witness that the Christ—whose birth the outside world celebrates unthinkingly at Christmas—can still inspire a living faith for which men and women even now endure im prisonment, torture and death as bravely as in centuries past. More than 80% of the prisoners in the concentration camps are not Jews but Christians, and the best tribute to the spirit of Germany's Christians comes from a Jew and agnostic (TIME, Sept. 23) — the world's most famous scientist, Albert Einstein. Says he: "Being a lover of freedom, when the revolution came in Germany, I looked to the universities to defend it, knowing that they had always boasted of their devotion to the cause of truth; but, no, the universities immediately were silenced. Then I looked to the great editors of the newspapers whose flaming editorials in days gone by had proclaimed their love of freedom; but they, like the universities, were silenced in a few short weeks. . . . "Only the Church stood squarely across the path of Hitler's campaign for suppressing truth. I never had any special interest in the Church before, but now I feel a great affection and admiration because the Church alone has had the courage and persistence to stand for intellectual truth and moral freedom. I am forced thus to confess that what I once despised I now praise unreservedly."

Read the whole thing:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,765103-1,00.html Burn

dawg

Burn says "Believers often get told to own up to the mistakes of religion over the centuries.
Own up to your own"!

I love it when people state this... so, what we have here is someone acknowledging that acting on thoughts that have no rational thinking can create "mistakes". You know "mistakes" like the inquisition and the like. Its on old saying that two wrongs don't make a right,the fact that any philosophy, be it Christianity, or communism has killed people needlessly in the name of their causes when they go a muck shows that irrational thinking causes harm... it proves nothing else. Religion is irrational, so is any cause that causes others physical harm.. period! Religion is irrational for all the reason Dawkins states, his acknowledgment that he has no idea how life began is logical, the fact the Perry and Burns think they know the answer is lunacy-yet they scoff at Dawkins for at least acknowledging he doesn't know what can't be known. What irony!

Perry, you just came from Church your post said; a person that believes the Bible as factual in any way is a lost cause... period! To think you have the nerve to question someone searching for a rational explanation as to the origins of life and would cling to that nonsense is truly amazing... good lord man, get a grip on yourself!

funkyderek

BurnTheShips:

I can't believe you'd sink so low as to use for support a man whose theories were directly responsible for the incineration of over 200,000 people and a Cold War that lasted nearly half a century.

BurnTheShips

BurnTheShips:
I can't believe you'd sink so low as to use for support a man whose theories were directly responsible for the incineration of over 200,000 people and a Cold War that lasted nearly half a century.

I can't believe you are so stupid that after all my explaining you still think I am accusing Darwin of anything to do with Nazis. Burn

Richard Dawkins Gets "Expelled" by Ben Stein!

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